What is so bad about FFXI?

[Gasher]

WoW knew how to have a good time, even if it wasn't the best storyteller.

I only played to like 50ish Rouge so really would not assume to know what WoW was all about. But the part I quoted I do agree on, WoW seemed to be all about that. Luckily for me (since I was a long time FFXI veteran) I did not (and still do not) want to just "run in for some fun". I want something deeper, something which takes a little while longer than shorts and a Hawaiian T-Shirt. I want intricate storytelling at it's very best and FFXI (until Abyssea) delivered just that. IMHO that is!

[Seikninkuru]

Looking at the attitude some players have and the constant reassurances from Yoshi that "FFXIV is not going to be FFXI-2" I feel puzzled. I get the impression that the words FFXI have become taboo and that they are avoided like the plague.

Please, before I'm being criticized take a look at my entire post. I come to you in a civilized and respective manner and I expect the same in return.
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First I want you to take a look at the direction of the game:
When FFXIV first came out it failed to meet both the customers and the critics expectations, this was mostly in it's largest proportion because the game was unfinished in content, balancing and polishing, but also because players didn't recognize themselves in this "Final Fantasy" world. Tanaka wanted to bring something new and he failed in the process.

When we take a look in which way the direction the game is taking under Yoshi P we see that he's reuniting us with the Final Fantasy feeling of the game. And this is incredibly important, most players who are still playing this are doing so because of the associations they have with the Final Fantasy genre, the work through the years of Squaresoft/Square-Enix and because of the MMO Final Fantasy XI. However it's not entirely unthinkable that some are just here because they like some of the promising unique mechanics that this game has shown.

Secondly, where does FFXI fit?:
A lot of the success achieved by the Final Fantasy games aside from the new stories and characters has been the returning elements such as chocobo's, cactuars, Cid, Japanese roleplaying elements, story elements and so forth. This is where Final Fantasy XI did well and this is what I think that FFXIV has to learn from.

But, there's something else. Final Fantasy XI has become part of the identity of the Final Fantasy genre. It has added elements to the Final Fantasy legacy and it's the ONLY Final Fantasy MMO out to this date, mind you also a great success. Final Fantasy XI has been out for about 10 years and there are still active paying subscribers. The game might be showing it's date but that doesn't mean that there's not a lot FFXIV will benefit from by looking back on this game.

Thirdly, FFXI and other MMOs:
A lot of you come from other MMOs such as WOW, and some of you expect this game to take elements from these MMOs the same way that some of use expect this game to take elements from FFXI. There are plenty of other WoW clones and Korean MMOs with their own market, rather than trying to adapt to that market and competing with those in their home field it is important to hang on to it's own successful playerbase (both XI and XIV) and adapt by expanding it's already existing market and competing with the other MMOs in it's home field. The proof that the Final Fantasy MMO market is successful and exists is pretty much that they are still alive, that FFXI after so many years still has subscriptions and content running and that FFXIV wasn't scrapped at launch.

This is not to say that FFXIV doesn't benefit from looking into other MMOs, but at the same time I think that it's focus should be by looking back and deciding "Where do we want to go and how do we stay true?", "How can we bring something new that doesn't alienate our players?".


Lastly, my conclusion to all of this:
I am sure that some of you are waiting to throw a stab at me by now, but what I want to clear up is this question. "Do I want FFXIV to be FFXI-2?" The answer is Yes and No.

Yes and no?: By this I mean the following. I want XIV to be the next step, to be able to take that step it is important that the prior step is already there, or you will fall on your face. Pretty much like the FFXIV launch. No disrespect intended.

If this is still not clear, I mean that:
1. I don't want XIV to be the same game or a spin off of FFXI.
2. I do want FFXIV to be FFXI-2 in the sense that I want FFXIV to relate back to the previous MMO title, the same way that the next numerated Final Fantasy single player game would relate back to the history of the prior numerated Final fantasy games, but still bringing it's own world, crowd and story.

This is where I think that most FFXI players are being misunderstood when they look back at XI and see that things are missing in FFXIV that did incredibly well in XI. Some times I feel as if this is somehow neglected by the developers in the fear of potential dissatisfyied customers and themselves because maybe they feel that the result will be a lack of progress, but the truth is that this is where most of it's progress can be attained.

Just to name a few amongst many (Of course, ideas that can be built on, not just clones)
- Party system with clear job roles and abilities. (Importance of communication, and furthering development of some of the same jobs)
- Dynamis (the raid itself, the vast number of players, the AF2 gear, relic weapons, the challenges such as Shaddow Lord)
- Sky / Sea (rather than a "raid", have a whole zone dedicated to gather pop items, powerful bosses and also quests/story. Keeping these specific to dedicated linkshell rather than "dungeon finder").
- Some of the same mobs? Yagudo, Mandragoras, Demons, etc.
- End-game competition, though notorious monsters (This one might just be a personal preference, but pretty much like the kings and the wyrms, but this time it would be wise to give the linkshells/members downtime to how often they can claim or even participate)
- The many and yet unique zones (Ifrit's Cauldron, TOAU, Altepa Desert, Sky/sea, Ronfaure, Zi'tah, Xarcabard are amongst the many awesome zones in XI. Due to the huge size and copy/pasting in XIV there aren't many memorable places).
- Though missions, like COP, Genkai quests where you needed to find help. (Some of the most satisfying moments came from the challenges that required both challenge in getting group and in success, remember getting sky and cop access with rings/earrings as well?)
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What's so bad about it? Everything.

[Jennestia]

What's so bad about it? Everything.

Thus why it's been in service for 9 1/2 years.

[Dreamer]

Thus why it's been in service for 9 1/2 years.

The number of MMORPGs have stayed up and running for more than 8 years is rather long. The only thing it says about a game is that its at least breaking even - it says nothing about the quality of the game.

[Synfrag]

FFXI (Almost a decade of my life) was not very successful and that is where they wanted to change. For many of us that played XI there is no other MMO that compares in scale and feeling. But 90% of the western market has no care for feeling, they want action and instant gratification. This can be seen evidently in everything around us, Hollywood, TV, Team Sports and other social environments.

Take a look at another popular thing from Japan. I know not everyone is a fan of Anime or Manga but Japanese cartoons even have (most of the time) well developed stories and characters. Though there are some in the US that go to this level it is far more uncommon.

So what you are talking about is fundamental societal differences. It actually is apparent in games from other countries such as Korea with Aion and Tera. In those the focus is more shallow than most US/EU and JP games. It's all about killing each other and looking like a porn star doing it.

Most of the XI-2 opponents are people who didn't really find XI appealing and believe it or not, they are the vast majority of MMO players. There was a statistic once on one of the gaming websites unintentionally countering the Vana'diel census. I will try to find the source but the results were somewhere around 70% of the people surveyed played FFXI for less than 6 months with a large portion of them not playing beyond their first 30 days.

My point being XI had such a small market share even in comparison to other MMOs excluding WoW. In terms of an MMO it was not at all "Highly Successful". So why rebuild what wasn't great to the masses?

[Jennestia]

The number of MMORPGs have stayed up and running for more than 8 years is rather long. The only thing it says about a game is that its at least breaking even - it says nothing about the quality of the game.

APB didn't even last 4 months and it got shut down because of very poor quality. So yes, games that are long running have some form of quality to them or they would never last -- Something has to attach players to a game even in the offline world, which is why Indie gaming is getting a lot more popular out west because aside from graphics, the gameplay quality of commercial games have dipped significantly.

So that is the point really -- If everything is wrong with a game, it won't survive, look at FFXIV's launch, a lot was wrong with it and it declined to an almost shut down 2 months after release.

[Reliquia]

I only played to like 50ish Rouge so really would not assume to know what WoW was all about. But the part I quoted I do agree on, WoW seemed to be all about that. Luckily for me (since I was a long time FFXI veteran) I did not (and still do not) want to just "run in for some fun". I want something deeper, something which takes a little while longer than shorts and a Hawaiian T-Shirt. I want intricate storytelling at it's very best and FFXI (until Abyssea) delivered just that. IMHO that is!

I highly agree with this. I played WoW a few months and it felt like a massive drag. I think it's pretty much because I'm not that big of a fan of neither the WoW lore or the style, also I found the presentation of the story to be terrible and bland.

In addition I wasn't a big fan of the gameplay or the community either, I even had more fun with Lineage II. But I have to admit, the PVP was quite fun, and it kept me playing for some weeks.

What I liked about FFXI was that there was a great community, loyalty and co-operation, a great sense of adventuring, a well presented story with a great world to back it up. Also must of all, which has been pointed out before, there was a deep sense of accomplishment. I remember how scary Vana'Diel was the first time I joined an xp pt, how grateful I was when I got help on my first AF quest, i remember the thrill of being accepted into an end-game linkshell. I also remember drooling on certain end-game gear, when I earned it, I could sit in front of my screen and watch my character for half an hour without doing anything else but being social.

This is what I miss from every single other MMO that I have played. I understand that there are a lot of players who prefer a fast paced game style with instant gratification and that requires low effort. But honestly I find that dull and shallow, I'd rather play a single player game.