What is so bad about FFXI?

[Razor]

Very well written OP, nice to see someone with a firm grasp on the English language once and awhile :P

I personally agree that the whole "XI is the devil" attitude that has perpetuated recently is very silly. Being that XI was the previous successful title I was very perplexed that the original XIV abandoned everything from XI. Even things so basic as ctrl+r for responding were absent from XI.

Things that should be melded from XI to XIV:
Majority of the core functionality features (/sea all, the ctrl commands (we have most of them now), etc) and the emotes. I can't stress the last one enough. I can't express how frustrating it is to not have the basic set of emotes XI had. I'd be very happy if they maintained all their current ones and just added the /grin, /huh, etc. It would even be cute to have subtle references to XI, such as an NPC making a joke about something only an XI player would understand.

Things XIV should not take from XI:
A lot of the examples you posted, honestly. All that Dynamis included followed in line with XI's story and would not fit in XIV. We could use the same concept but with different players. I love mandragoras as much as the next XI-vet, but here I also have to vote for keeping them out. They could make a "new" mandragora specifically for XIV but for the most part all of those creatures belong in Vana'diel, not Eorzea. The beast men especially, we have new beast men (I am aware Amaljaa are from XI, calm down) and they fit into the lore and such. We do have cross-world mobs though: Ahriman, Ochu, Bombs, etc but all of these are designed differently than their XI counterpart. Goblins are the only thing that never change but that is an obvious exception.

What I find very facinating about XIV is that we have been given the opportunity to really see a game in its adolescent stage. Most games are already in solid concrete by the time they hit the consumer market but we have been given the chance to see a game didn't quite know what it wanted to be and help it along.

It had very strict parents X and I who were so controlling and restrictive that XIV became a rebel and defied against everything its parents tried to teach it. After entering the real world and meeting those "cool" kids who make bad choices named W, O, and W, XIV started trying to be a little more like them. As it started actually maturing it realized that maybe some of the things X and I were beating into its skull were actually good morals, but at the same time saw the good spots of W, O, and W. Having had struggle to determine who XIV truly was, it is finally coming into its own wielding diversity from multiple scenes. I think that this kind of development although incredibly costly to the developer (SE) will in the end result in a very well rounded game. People with a wide variety of MMO backgrounds have been able to contribute feature A B or C and in the end we will be delivered a game that stays true to its roots while breaking the mold at the same time.

[RemnantWolf]

I also think part of the problem is that people fail to realize that there is a difference between "concept" and "execution". Chocobo racing is a concept, In XI you watched and hoped for your bird to win with the stats you raised him with, that was their execution, but if you made it so that players rode their chocobos in races the execution is completely different.

I mean just look at pet systems in MMOs, they have become a staple for many MMOs and yet no one cries "CLONE!" if they see it because pet systems have a million different executions.

[Kopuno]

I don't, I loved XI pre-Abyssea/Astral Burns. Great post btw~

[Monty]

I get that people want XIV to be different, on the other hand, FFXI was very successful by MMO standards (excluding WoW). So why not take quite a few elements from something that was good and incorporate it into XIV and possibly make it better? Even little things like job names, race names, keep some familiarity there but make the job different with new abilities, etc. I know they kept the same race look, but, just keep the names the same, it's what most players use anyways.

I guess my opinion is, you had something successful, so why completely stray from it, it makes no sense.

[XxOstiaxX]

Tank&Spank for 95% of it's content :/

[Shipp]

I want it to be ffxi in the sense of great storyline and gameplay so far ffxiv does not meet that. Sky,COP,whitegate all of this is great but FFXIV is becoming more like wow or a western game and don't sit there and tell me no it's not. Right now FFXIV 2.0 is noting like ffxi. 1.0 is really like ffxi but i understand in today market we need to have stuff that are in other MMO have and that fine by me. But to make this game great for both hardcore / casual you can't make it 100% like ffxi or 100% like western type mmo.

FFXIV should try and stay unique systems while adding ffxi and wow system within if they can do this then it would be a great game if they go and make it ffxi 2.0 or a wow-clone it wont get far at all. Let's hope Yoshi-p knows what he doing when it come to 2.0 so far i loving everything there only a few things that should never be added but we see how it work out.

I don't get this with you. It's just like in the other thread where you say the 2.0 concept UI looks like WoW and the graphics look like a downgrade. Neither of which are true. Everyone knows you hate WoW. You make that abundantly clear in 95% of your posts, as you always have, long before XIV came out. That does not mean that you are right and everyone is wrong.

XIV at the moment plays nothing like, nor even looks like XI outside of the same races. The scenery doesn't feel the same, the mobs don't feel the same, hell, even the races do not feel the same, though they resemble XI's races. Renaming the races was a ridiculous decision, in my opinion. Another example of SE trying to reinvent the wheel and make sure everyone knows this isn't XI-2. 2.0 looks VASTLY more like XI than it does currently. The systems are still different though, jobs/subjobs aren't making a return, and jobs are advanced through quests instead of mob grinding.

Again, XIV 2.0 is still nothing like WoW. It doesn't look like WoW, the area concept shots we have seen do not "feel" like WoW, and they are much closer to XI and other FF games. A few shots remind me of IX. I think you're forgetting what Final Fantasy was about prior to X. Realism was not part of the series, ever. Realistic looking graphics does not mean they look like copies of real world areas. It means that the game looks as if it could actually exist. It's, "This is what a real life crystal tower would look like." Not, "Crystal towers don't really exist so we can't add them to the game." Those crags in XI... have you ever seen one in real life? Have you ever been teleported someone in real life? Have you ever warped somewhere in real life? Have you ever visited that famous floating tower in the sky with gods? Have you ever visited Planet Namek on acid? Have you ever ridden an oversized chicken? Have you ever seen living beings that are 10 times your size? Have you ever ventured into a tree to find wisps and blue light radiating from fungi? No? Then XI is just as unrealistic as XIV will be.

[Shikyo]

Do we want FFXIV to become XI-2, the answer is yes to a degree.

A XI clone is guaranteed will fail, just like a WoW clone is guaranteed to fail.

We need defining concepts from XI, the story arches, the intertwining quest and missions, and the basic elements to a final fantasy game. We need to draw on what XI did to keep 95% of its playerbase active for over 7yrs, something no other mmo has ever done. We need to draw on the long term goals which keep players playing for a very long time, we need to let people build their characters over years not update to update. We need to large scale content. We need stuff that hardcore simply cannot breeze through in a week/month/year.

We also need defining concepts from WoW(mainstream). The userfriendly interface, The auction house system which is superior to XI, Content for solo players, tiered battles so the hardcore can be challenged and the (I would say casual but even they can do hard stuff) less talented do not get pushed away from the game. PvP since it is a staple of mmos despite whether people like or hate it, and the guild management systems in place.

Outside those concepts, everything must be original or the mmo will never take off. In the end no one will pay for a mmo when they can have the same experience elsewhere except the older mmo has 20 fold the content. We need something that has never been done, A game that is fun for Casual mainstream players, and no-life hardcore players. A game where there is endless content, a game that is unlike any other mmo out there in the end.

I agree ..

[AdvancedWind]

Just a little question to leave out in the air:

After reading most of the posts since my last posts earlier on the thread, that's really the only thing I wanna know from the XI vets.

Was Final Fantasy XI so perfect that the only hope Square Enix has is to take as many "concepts" from XI as possible, maybe add a minor spin / improvement on them and call it a day?

Because I still stand to what I've said earlier; Yes, Final Fantasy XIV should take plenty of stuff that worked on XI and put it in the game ASAP, specially when it comes to more general systems such as mail or auction houses. Yes, Final Fantasy XIV needs to invest more into fleshing out it's lore and make the storyline more involved, like XI. More nods to XI (and the series in general) are always good a thing; For example, I have no idea why the hell XI Mandragoras aren't here yet, it should've been the third monster they designed, right after Cactuars and Tonberries.

But no, Final Fantasy XIV should not fall back into merely picking up something from XI whenever a new idea fails. I want to believe Yoshi-P is able to deliver us content that is innovative, lasts for a long time, offers meaningful rewards and lore, indeed like XI; But, with they being nothing like XI. The FFXIV team as a whole should be able to make us new systems and concepts that work as well as XI's systems without being the same thing.

Not because XI was "bad", not because putting anything from XI is a bad idea, but because this game CAN turn into something better than it's predecessor without being incredibly similar to it.

[dolionakifkinpos]

they really need to redo the animations and solidness of the combat system and a lot of the sfx, 11 smashes this game to shit in those regards, now maybe they are in 2.0 but who knows

[Jennestia]

Just a little question to leave out in the air:

After reading most of the posts since my last posts earlier on the thread, that's really the only thing I wanna know from the XI vets.

Was Final Fantasy XI so perfect that the only hope Square Enix has is to take as many "concepts" from XI as possible, maybe add a minor spin / improvement on them and call it a day?

They'd be doing pretty much this by adding what's "standard" and being creative with it, so either way you look at it, it's exactly what they should have done.

Since this seems to get ignored and people will continue to say soandso wants a FFXI-2:

No one wants a FFXI-2, but what's being stated is there was zero reason to not use the basics and build off of it, making it better, like Square usually did with their games.

this game CAN turn into something better than it's predecessor without being incredibly similar to it.

That's the problem though -- it has to be better than it's predecessor, yet it wasn't simply because they threw out everything they've learned, since in reality, XIV's predecessors were Final Fantasy XI and Front Mission Online, meaning not only did they produce and operate 2 MMOs prior to XIV, they also had the basics present and shown between just those two MMOs they've learned something (FMO's launch was a lot smoother than XI's and the basics were a lot more stable.)

Then comes XIV...which felt like they've learned nothing at all. XI wasn't a perfect game, but the simple fact remains: They could have easily took what worked with XI and made it better, like a lot of people were expecting them to do. Innovation is fine, but even Edison basically took something that already existed and made it better which is still thought of as innovative -- You can't innovate if you don't even properly incorporate the basics.

The only people who fear XIV being "like FFXI" should also fear XIV being like every other MMORPG if they incoporate the standards, because there would be absolutely no different. MMOs uses Instances as a main form of content these days, XIV is starting to incorporate them, that basically means it's copying every other MMO, yet people seem to be ok with that.

The ONLY WAY FFXIV could EVER become FFXI-2 is if Eorzea vanishes and we're brought back into Vanadiel.