What is so bad about FFXI?

[Physic]

When I read posts like this I can't help but think they're leaning clear into the "hyperbolic" end of things.

For one, your last paragraph sorta comes across as you saying "people have to be told what to do and tricked into having fun, 'cause they can't figure it how on their own.". It's a terribly cynical perspective... but not necessarily one without merit. However, I also don't think that entirely lays at SE's feet.

As for your description of FFXI... It certainly doesn't sound like the FFXI I played. For at least 90% of the time I played FFXI (from US PC launch up to just before Abyssea with a few breaks along the way), I had a ball. Only thing that ever got to me was some of the people I encountered.

I never stood around doing nothing unless that's exactly what I wanted to do. If I wanted to get an xp party and invites weren't coming as quickly, I'd try to assemble a party instead.

If it wasn't xp parties, I'd be doing something else.. like crafting, or putting together Assault groups, or working on lower level jobs.. or working on missions/quests I wanted to get done. There was always something to do in FFXI. You almost never had to stand around doing nothing... unless you chose to.

Notice how in the majority of complaints you hear about parties in XI, it entails the person complaining "standing around waiting for a party"? Their problem is contained right in their own complaint, and the solution was right in their own grasp.

The people I knew who tended to wait for others to invite them did tend to stand around waiting a lot. And oh how they complained, blaming SE, blaming the game, blaming their job.. blaming everyone and everything but themselves.

Meanwhile, those who chose to take the initiative and form parties were out xp'ing.

The problem largely lay in people wanting everything to come to them without effort or initiative on their part (as is the case with a lot of gamers these days, is it not?).

I had a good friend in FFXI who leveled not one, but two characters from scratch, getting all jobs - including the unpopular ones - from 1 to 75 in less time than many others would require. Why? She took initiative. She didn't stand around waiting for the invites to come to her... She sent the invites out herself. And before someone says "well she was a girl so it would be easier for her".. most people didn't know she was a female until after they were grouped with her.. if they ever found out at all. She didn't use her gender to get an easier ride.

She put as many hours into the game as many others did. The difference is, while others stood around complaining about "no invites", she was putting groups together.

I remember a discussion in LS one night where people were bitching about how long it took to get parties and were surprised at how she was always in a party, or going after a HNM, and generally always making progress. Her answer pissed half the LS off (those complaining) but it was absolutely true: "I make all this progress because I don't stand around with my thumb up my ass waiting for others to come to me so I can play the game".

Of course people in the LS argued with her left and right that she was wrong, that it had nothing to do with standing around, etc. But at the end of the day... the proof is in the pudding. She was assertive, took the initiative and didn't wait to be called on. If she wanted something, she grabbed the proverbial bull by the horns and made it happen. That was the only difference between her and the people sitting around in Jeuno "for hours" with their seek flags up.

putting things together in ffxi was a tremendous hassle, full of ignorance arrogance elitism etc. It wasnt easy, unless you had a core group. The fact is it always took way longer to prepare to do something in ffxi, than it did to do it. Some things just made no sense, like the beastmen seal fight with gods, required 12-18 people, and yet, it would be almost impossible to do them 12 to 18 times in one sitting, so then you have to spend time trying to figure out how to distribute the rewards on what would be a substantial investment of time.

FFXI had it strengths, but it definitely had its weaknesses, and i would let this game have its own strengths and weaknesses, without trying to recreate FFXI, like many people have probably said, the FF idealogy is not one of sequels, just because YOU like i specific final fantasy doesnt mean every final fantasy should follow the same format. Take it or leave it, it is not XI, and it should never become XI, going by their previous design philosophy, and what makes sense while the XI product is still in circulation and viable.

There is no reason to make an XI-2 when XI is still around.

[Jennestia]

There is no reason to make an XI-2 when XI is still around.

Which again, not one person has truly ever said -- Unless of course one is willing to admit that every MMORPG that has a similar interface is indeed a direct sequel of another MMO. For example Rappelz is clearly a Lineage II-2, it's undeniable.

Honestly, most people have specifically said take what worked in FFXI, i.e PARTY SEARCH and made it better, as well as taking content concepts, i.e Assault/Nyzul/Einherjar systems, as in point based raid systems, how is that making it FFXI-2?

Then again, Imperial Assaults are very reminiscent of the campaign system, so in a roundabout way, it's already FFXI-2 in that logic.

[Keramory]

When it comes to classes and battle style, yes I always expected and hoped for a copy of FFXI, but even more upgraded and awesome. Didn't get that with either lol.
Everyone goes FFXI clone zomg like people want EVERYTHING copied, right down to the storyline. That for the most part isn't the case. We just want a next gen Final Fantasy game, hopefully based from our favorite FF series...and for the most part its FFIII

[Arkine]

FFXI and FFXIV should have had the same kind of relationship Demon's and Dark souls have. While the second isn't the first's sequel, it builds off what made the first one great and enhances it while trying to avoid the flaws of the first.

That's how a good chunk of the fan base saw it, FFXIV was supposed to take everything good about FFXI (which was/is a good solid MMO) and make it better, and that sounded great and added to the hype for XIV.

But we got what we got and people raged about how the game wasn't only very different from XI, but it was inferior. (Bad game in general)

The "fixing" process started and I honestly assumed SE would starting copying the good things about XI and add them to XIV but then people started complaining and saying that they don't want the game to be anything like FFXI and screaming bloody murder whenever a similar aspect of XI makes it into XIV.

Whats bad about FFXI is that it was an evil time sink with 24~72hr re-spawn NMs with a very low drop %. Heavily based around grouping and as content got harder, pick up groups became less and less reliable and in the end forced people to find statics, which required more flexible play times instead of just logging whenever, playing then logging out, class imbalances, unavoidable cookie cutter builds, etc.

Anyhow, FFX has alot of good things going for it, and we shouldn't dismiss them just because we're scared of a "gasps" FFXI-2.

[Altanas]

1. As a poster above said, it was a lot more efficient to take the initiative to make your own parties in 11 (and 14...), but even still it was a hassle searching for people. Still holds true for 14, if you cant find a tank or a healer than you will still sit around shouting for hours on end. Dungeon Finder will resolve this to an extent searching across servers.

2. I think one thing that FF11 improved upon itself was where the older events became elitist or you just had to go with your LS or you wont get any drops, the newer events since TAU you could do with pick up parties and earn points to spend at an npc. Thats what i'd like in 14, its difficult to attend LS events at certain times unless you dont work lol. I'd like to jump into PUG groups when I have little time so I at least acheieve something.

3. Another aspect where FF11 was good but for some reason it is not in 14 is BCNMs or Walk of Echoes type battles. We already have the dungeons where we trapse through mobs to get to a boss, its about time we had some Battlefields. The claiming system since patch 1.19 caters for such already. Its clear from the number of TotoRak and Darkhold runs, people at rank50 only really cared for boss fights, so a Walk of Echoes type zone would surely be most welcome in 14. We need some decent Bosses and Battlefields where we can take advantage/develop the strategy side of the battlesystem rather than burning through mobs in 10 seconds

[Physic]

Which again, not one person has truly ever said -- Unless of course one is willing to admit that every MMORPG that has a similar interface is indeed a direct sequel of another MMO. For example Rappelz is clearly a Lineage II-2, it's undeniable.

Honestly, most people have specifically said take what worked in FFXI, i.e PARTY SEARCH and made it better, as well as taking content concepts, i.e Assault/Nyzul/Einherjar systems, as in point based raid systems, how is that making it FFXI-2?

Then again, Imperial Assaults are very reminiscent of the campaign system, so in a roundabout way, it's already FFXI-2 in that logic.

the point of the poster is that ffxi was good and they want more ffxi in ffxiv. This does not need to be the case, im not saying an FFXI-2 would suck, but there is no reason to make this game ffxi-2.

Party search is not an FFXI thing, it isnt what defines ffxi. Assualt nyzul and einherjar, well depends what you mean, nyzul is basically the tower climb mechanic, common in many RPGs Einherjar is basically similar but not shaped like a tower.

In all honesty this game is shaping up to offer something different and interesting, party versus party combat, if what yoshi says occurs happens, more story, materia offering more customization, a fairly different place in the heirarchy for crafting and gathering. This game has its own strengths to build on, they need to continue to build on that. They shouldnt it make the game into ffxi, and by ffxi im talking about party only play, overall lacklusterness of each class on its own, most high level content requiring large amounts of players in the same place at the same time, copies of unique ffxi systems, or monsters (one of the worst things they did was directly jack FFXI for monster models, i hope it stops here)

FFXI was cool, but this game can be its own game, it doesnt need to copy ffxi. why should it? ffxi was 1 out of 14 final fantasies, and it probably wasnt even the best selling one.

[Physic]

FFXI and FFXIV should have had the same kind of relationship Demon's and Dark souls have. While the second isn't the first's sequel, it builds off what made the first one great and enhances it while trying to avoid the flaws of the first.

That's how a good chunk of the fan base saw it, FFXIV was supposed to take everything good about FFXI (which was/is a good solid MMO) and make it better, and that sounded great and added to the hype for XIV.

But we got what we got and people raged about how the game wasn't only very different from XI, but it was inferior. (Bad game in general)

The "fixing" process started and I honestly assumed SE would starting copying the good things about XI and add them to XIV but then people started complaining and saying that they don't want the game to be anything like FFXI and screaming bloody murder whenever a similar aspect of XI makes it into XIV.

Whats bad about FFXI is that it was an evil time sink with 24~72hr re-spawn NMs with a very low drop %. Heavily based around grouping and as content got harder, pick up groups became less and less reliable and in the end forced people to find statics, which required more flexible play times instead of just logging whenever, playing then logging out, class imbalances, unavoidable cookie cutter builds, etc.

Anyhow, FFX has alot of good things going for it, and we shouldn't dismiss them just because we're scared of a "gasps" FFXI-2.

except that idealogy directly goes against what square has done with the FF franchise, ffxi was only 1 final fantasy, and FFXI isnt the most critically acclaimed, or the best selling one. Why out of all FF should they try to copy only that one?

imo they shouldnt borrow from ffxi, because it still exists, its still available and its still being marketed, MMOs dont need sequels, they can grow on their own, FFXI is its own sequel. There is no logical reason to make this game like that one. I sincerely hope the game continues to grow as its own entry in the FF franchise, and continues to offer a different type of online experience.

[Jennestia]

FFXI was cool, but this game can be its own game, it doesnt need to copy ffxi. why should it? ffxi was 1 out of 14 final fantasies, and it probably wasnt even the best selling one.

It wasn't, if i recall XIII was pretty much up there alongside VII. Even then, as this person said:

FFXI and FFXIV should have had the same kind of relationship Demon's and Dark souls have. While the second isn't the first's sequel, it builds off what made the first one great and enhances it while trying to avoid the flaws of the first.

This is exactly the point. No a 'party search system is a FFXI exclusive', but it's from an MMORPG Square Enix made 10 years ago, there's no reason XIV should have lacked the same basic systems.

except that idealogy directly goes against what square has done with the FF franchise, ffxi was only 1 final fantasy,

FFII built off of FFI.

FFIII built off of FFII and added a real job system.

FFV built off of FFIII and even enhanced the job system.

FFTT took the job system further, something that originated in FFIII (can argue II).

So yes, It does actually fit in what Square has done with FFs. Even FFXI is a glorified FFIII over an Everquest base.

[ellohwell]

It wasn't, if i recall XIII was pretty much up there alongside VII. Even then, as this person said:


This is exactly the point. No a 'party search system is a FFXI exclusive', but it's from an MMORPG Square Enix made 10 years ago, there's no reason XIV should have lacked the same basic systems.

We get it. You hate FFXIV and run a fansite for it (ironically).

And we get it. FFXIV needs a good search function. We get that. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

What FFXIV doesnt need however is to degenerate into a FFXI clone, making all the same mistakes FFXI made.

I see FFXIV making the same mistakes FFXI made, even now, and it's a path which won't lead them to success. Going back the the required class and rank thing, for example. Freedom was one thing FFXI lacked entirely. And it's funny to see every other MMO moving toward giving players freedom, and at the same time see FFXIV pulling away from that trend.

[Jennestia]

We get it. You hate FFXIV and run a fansite for it (ironically)..

That's funny, where did I say I hated FFXIV? Then again, I guess you actually like the fact XIV lacked basic systems of any MMORPG? Like a working party search system?

Which is also funny, a lot more people proved with their flatout refusal to play and even leaving the game pretty quickly they didn't enjoy the fact XIV lacked even basic features found in a previous MMORPG that Square made.

That's the problem here, if in FFXI and FMO there were basic systems present, why did XIV forgo it? You do realize Square admitted it was a mistake in it's original direction with the game, right? Why do you think they're overhauling the game?

Surely not because people enjoyed every single aspect about the game.

it's a path which won't lead them to success. Going back the the required class and rank thing, for example

Rift is pretty successful, it also has restrictions with certain aspects. So like you say:

We get it

You hate the system, that's fine.