SE Please add jump and swiming

[Jigg]

Here are my suggestions for Jumping:

1) Only allow jumping where jumping is needed (contextual jumping)
2) Have a cooldown on jump so people don't using jump as their primary mode of transportation...

Jumping should have a need, not be something to do because you're bored.

[Alerith]

Honestly, would it kill for both sides to meet halfway on this?

A structured jump feature gives both sides what they want, more or less. You can't bunny hop all over the place and you can't try to get "out of bounds" but you'll still have your ability to scale/jump cliffs and fences. You walk up to a fence and you get a prompt to jump it. Tie that prompt to a key and boom, instant terrain jump. Same for cliffs. At least with a structured jump feature, animations can be adjusted for the varying sizes of the different races.

As far as swimming goes, I would actually be fairly happy if it was in FFX and had whole areas devoted to underwater segments. But not bobbing around in zones that don't actually have a use for it. A whole underwater dungeon would be cool, having to swim to it and do some "dry" areas of it.

The zones in 2.0 simply need to be designed for it, and I think it would be beneficial to both sides if it was prompt based instead of free hop.

[Jennestia]

Honestly, would it kill for both sides to meet halfway on this?

Seems it would, since people will keep attacking and blaming people who play FFXI, mostly due to their own dislike for the product (no other reason to continually attack the fact someone plays a specific MMORPG.)

[Zaireeka2025]

I'm going to repost this as a response to meeting halfway (I'm pretty sure most will agree with me on these):

My vision for jump:

~Have it so that players can jump whenever they want/need, but make it realistic and in-tune with the current high quality animation style. This means a fairly instant jump upon button activation, but ending with a nice smooth landing animation which needs to finish its cycle before being able to spam it again. This would avoid what FFXI players fear the most in terms of incessant bunny hopping.

~Have jump actually coincide with the design of 2.0 so that there could be reasons to jump (i.e. in dungeons over pitfalls that could drop us a level below). Falling from heights too high would hurt our HP (like in Zelda), but cliffsides should still have invisible walls (no need to fall off cliffs since this would only be an instant death hassle).

~If jumping was to be implemented into battles (this one's for you Jynx), they shouldn't be regular jumps but instead dodging rolls in all directions.

~If/when swimming is added, let us climb (yes, climb) up ladders/vines to high ledges and swan dive into the water. This would be awesome as an entrance to an instanced dungeon.

~Allow us to jump while on chocoback, but let us glide down to the ground with certain (black) chocobos.

[Jennestia]

I'm going to repost this as a response to meeting halfway (I'm pretty sure most will agree with me on these):

Reasonable...but wait:

This would avoid what FFXI players fear the most in terms of incessant bunny hopping.

Which goes right back to what I said:

Seems it would, since people will keep attacking and blaming people who play FFXI, mostly due to their own dislike for the product (no other reason to continually attack the fact someone plays a specific MMORPG.)

You could have easily made your opinion without yet again attacking the fact someone plays a specific MMORPG. Those 'FFXI players' can't have a "fear of incessant bunny hopping" if their argument is surrounding the fact they play FFXI, a game without jump.

[Zaireeka2025]

You could have easily made your opinion without yet again attacking the fact someone plays a specific MMORPG. Those 'FFXI players' can't have a "fear of incessant bunny hopping" if their argument is surrounding the fact they play FFXI, a game without jump.

You love playing the FFXI victim. Nobody is attacking FFXI. I used to be one. We're just stating the obvious; including Yoshi, so tell it to him while you're at it!

"Yoshida: A lot of the Japanese players of XIV that only know about that game as well as FFXI, so they’re used to having a character that can’t jump. They don’t realize that you can jump in every other MMO in the world, so they have that aversion to it.

It’s not only Japan though. If you look at our forums, there are a lot of people, even in North America, who don’t want the jumping feature." -RPGSite Interview

[Jennestia]

You love playing the FFXI victim. Nobody is attacking FFXI.

No one said XI is being attacked, it's the people who play FFXI being attacked. Just read this thread:

"FFXI players are why we can't have jump"

"FFXI players are holding this game back"

Even you stated at one point:

When I play games like Rift and SW:TOR (beta), I don't see all the hippity hoppity annoying characters that FFXI players see as so annoying.

So no one said the game is being attacked, it's the fact people keep continually spouting off "FFXI players this" and "FFXI players that".

[Onidemon]

Ok look, this is for all people against jumping. I'll use the same argument i used before and i want someone to tell me why they disagree or why it wouldn't apply to FFXIV. "it looks stupid" will not be accepted.

a 2011 FPS like MW3, doesn't need jump. I can imagine the game without it, but does that mean that it wouldn't improve it? Does that mean that all the mechanics attached to it and the freedom of movement it gives you is pointless? I think not. IF EA makes Battlefield 4, has the most insane graphics and physics engine the world has ever seen but they didn't add jump, nor do you have a HUD or ragdoll physics or blood when shooting enemies. Do you think that the gamers and the critics would forgive them? Do you think that the game would be more attractive than Activision's offering who incorporates all these gameplay feature which add to the fun factor and overall experience just because it has slightly better graphics or physics?

Just like BMW's new car won't be liked if it didn't have cup holders, AC, ABS, Cruise control, electric windows but instead let you walk right through it's doors like pure magic.

You just don't put yourself below competition from the start. You don't innovate or move forward by sticking to what worked for you 10 years ago. Apple's products wouldn't be so popular if they always did the same thing over and over again. The ipod didn't need a touch screen to play music but having one made it hell lot better.

You can't take a look at some gameplay aspects that everyone else is using for a good reason and dismiss it with comments like it looks stupid. If the way the others made it looks stupid, then it is up to you to make it better and that is an advantage you will have over everyone else. Refusing to use something because someone else didn't make good use of it just leaves you with a product that is actually worst and lacking compared to the other comapany's less then optimal attempt.

[IveraIvalice]

Ok look, this is for all people against jumping. I'll use the same argument i used before and i want someone to tell me why they disagree or why it wouldn't apply to FFXIV. "it looks stupid" will not be accepted.

a 2011 FPS like MW3, doesn't need jump. I can imagine the game without it, but does that mean that it wouldn't improve it? Does that mean that all the mechanics attached to it and the freedom of movement it gives you is pointless? I think not. IF EA makes Battlefield 4, has the most insane graphics and physics engine the world has ever seen but they didn't add jump, nor do you have a HUD or ragdoll physics or blood when shooting enemies. Do you think that the gamers and the critics would forgive them? Do you think that the game would be more attractive than Activision's offering who incorporates all these gameplay feature which add to the fun factor and overall experience just because it has slightly better graphics or physics?

Just like BMW's new car won't be liked if it didn't have cup holders, AC, ABS, Cruise control, electric windows but instead let you walk right through it's doors like pure magic.

You just don't put yourself below competition from the start. You don't innovate or move forward by sticking to what worked for you 10 years ago. Apple's products wouldn't be so popular if they always did the same thing over and over again. The ipod didn't need a touch screen to play music but having one made it hell lot better.

You can't take a look at some gameplay aspects that everyone else is using for a good reason and dismiss it with comments like it looks stupid. If the way the others made it looks stupid, then it is up to you to make it better and that is an advantage you will have over everyone else. Refusing to use something because someone else didn't make good use of it just leaves you with a product that is actually worst and lacking compared to the other comapany's less then optimal attempt.

i agree that if one company can do it better that will be fine. but thats why we are having this converstion to help them make it better for everyone. and thats why im promoting people to compromise.
referencing games like MW3 or Battlefield isnt helping any, and is not much of a valid point because thats a completely different game type. if your playing a game where you run around and shoot, you will probably need to jump because thats what the game type is based around, thats the core mechanics of the game.
but an MMO does not need jump. its an added feature that is not required to play the game. so since jump is just icing on the cake, it can be done in many different ways, and it CAN interfere with the Core intent of the game. (to be an RPG, and a good story RPG) by breaking immersion, thats why if its going to be done, we just want it to be done right or not be done at all.