Ilberd

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

They want to escape an obsessive, cultist, military dictatorship. What exactly is selfish about that? What is selfish about Cid's reasons for defecting?

Garlemald is invading, and doing nothing good while doing so. Cid has very clear (and, frankly, very sympathetic) reason for wanting to ditch that noise. Garlemald uses science and tech at the expense of its own citizens! He's out. He's done. That's good motivation! We don't know Lucia's, but...dude, look. At some point, you're going to need to admit that these guys are closer to the Nazis (or Imperial Japan, or whatever) than they are to Rome. THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS. They enslave and conquer for no purpose other than that single, selfish end. If a former Nazi defected, and it led to the death of some German soldiers, that's war and perfectly understandable. Why can't you apply that logic here? You talk about pragmatic interpretation, yet you're blind to how the story presents this nation.

[Rhodkr]

Words.

What I'm talking about aren't the leaders, military or otherwise who turn a blind eye to what's going on. I'm talking about the normal people, the accountants, the bakers, the blacksmiths, the doctors. People a government needs to make the world go round. They're people who really have nothing to do with what's going on in war and might just be caught in the middle because they had the misfortune of moving into the new city-state. Honestly, this whole conquer and oppress thing that Garleamald has going for it started out as them trying to put a lock down on the summoning of primals. So in essence they were trying to save hydaelyn.

However the road to where is paved with good intentions? I'm sure that now a lot of the higher ups turned it into an opportunity to grab power and fame for themselves.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Honestly, this whole conquer and oppress thing that Garleamald has going for it started out as them trying to put a lock down on the summoning of primals. So in essence they were trying to save hydaelyn.

It didn't though. This is a common misconception - Garlemald's conquest has nothing to do with the Primals, other than that the Primals are in the way. Their entire opposition to them is that Othard summoned theirs when Garlemald tried to invade, it cost Garlemald dearly, and Garlemald would really rather avoid similar losses in taking Eorzea. That suppressing Primals is pretty good for Hydaelyn is completely coincidental.

[PArcher]

Then there's the big twist of irony, their way of trying to stop the primals from being summoned is causing more to be.

[Frederick22]

snip

Totaly agreed with you Hinoto!
Honeslty the garlemand empire looks more like the nazis than romans.
It was the allagans who looked more like romans.

[myahele]

I'm pretty sure the Garlean citizens are fine, but the higher ups that are the problem. Still, even if we do liberate Ala Mhigo from Garlean occupation, I just hope it won't be a rehash of Heavensward.

Since it takes 20 years in military service to become a citizen of Garlemald Empire, then I somehow doubt there'll be many and if there are then many of them would be killed via the (possible) war against them.

No matter their "good intentions" we have to keep in mind that it people acting for the sake of Garlemald that have weakened Hydaelyn significantly: Project Meteor eventually unleashing Bahamut thus causing a Calamity. Ultima activating thus draining most of Hydaelyn's strength. I suppose the use of ceruleum (liquid aether) will have consequence, but that's pure speculation for now.

It was also said that echo users are seen as enemies of the Empire.

Beastmen summoning Primals are bad, but primals can be defeated -at great cost- through conventional means.

[CyrusArjuna]

Totaly agreed with you Hinoto!
Honeslty the garlemand empire looks more like the nazis than romans.
It was the allagans who looked more like romans.

Eh, that kinda falls flat when you realize that the Allagans took the peoples indigenous to Meracydia, forced them to summon their Primals, then trapped them and their gods in stasis for thousands of years just as a battery.

And as for the summoning in Othard...we have no information about that event other than the fact that it happened. And it obviously happened before the events of 1.0 (or could be retconned to be so). For all we know, their tactic of brainwashing conquered people might have been devised as a Primal countermeasure after huge losses sustained in Othard. The Garlean Empire might have been more pragmatic before the threat of Primals was made evident to them.

[Kallera]

It was also said that echo users are seen as enemies of the Empire.

Beastmen summoning Primals are bad, but primals can be defeated -at great cost- through conventional means.

That's hardly an answer even in Eorzea's case, as you are dealing with spiritual beings that can be resummoned when "slain", given enough crystals and faith. As much of a boon they have been, even the WoL is but a temporary solution that can just as easily die or be rendered helpless before a particular primal's assault.

when you take this from the view of an expanding empire, that will likely have more hostile enemies gifted with magic and more primals of their own, stopping primals permanently with a tried and true method becomes a lot more appealing. The attritiion of conventionally defeating primals would eventually incite more rebellion and a reversal of Garlemeld's fortunes as crystals and faith are a lot cheaper than the blood and treasure spent stopping rampaging primals of various strength.

[Theodric]

The 'conventional means' of defeating a Primal pretty much involves throwing numerous skilled combatants at them and hoping for the best. Many are then killed, injured or Tempered. Sure, the Warrior of Light can handle them more easily but he's not going to be around forever or even realistically available on a whim.

The Garleans, at least, are being proactive about trying to find a solution to the Primal/Eikon problem. Much like the Allagans did. You can disagree with their methods, sure, but the alternative 'solutions' aren't exactly great.

As for Hydaelyn being 'weakened' by Garlemald's actions? Even if that's the case most of the blame can rest on her for not being bloody open and honest with the WoL and Scions. Though since it's heavily implied that all is not as it seems with her it's probably premature to pin the Garleans as the bad guys just yet.

[Lauront]

*words*

How on earth do you think Rome operated? The story, nevertheless, doesn't present them in the same vein as Nazis, and if you want to argue that they don't specifically aim to destroy the Primals for the danger that they pose to Eorzea, back it up.

Not that Ala Mhigo has much of a leg to stand on in this regard, given its own history of aggression. As in, why should I sympathise with them, now that they have befallen the fate that they would have gladly inflicted upon their neighbours.



As for Ilberd, they would need to do a lot of character development to get him in a position fit to do anything as described in the OP.