Ilberd

[Kallera]

It was also said that echo users are seen as enemies of the Empire.

Beastmen summoning Primals are bad, but primals can be defeated -at great cost- through conventional means.

That's hardly an answer even in Eorzea's case, as you are dealing with spiritual beings that can be resummoned when "slain", given enough crystals and faith. As much of a boon they have been, even the WoL is but a temporary solution that can just as easily die or be rendered helpless before a particular primal's assault.

when you take this from the view of an expanding empire, that will likely have more hostile enemies gifted with magic and more primals of their own, stopping primals permanently with a tried and true method becomes a lot more appealing. The attritiion of conventionally defeating primals would eventually incite more rebellion and a reversal of Garlemeld's fortunes as crystals and faith are a lot cheaper than the blood and treasure spent stopping rampaging primals of various strength.

[Theodric]

The 'conventional means' of defeating a Primal pretty much involves throwing numerous skilled combatants at them and hoping for the best. Many are then killed, injured or Tempered. Sure, the Warrior of Light can handle them more easily but he's not going to be around forever or even realistically available on a whim.

The Garleans, at least, are being proactive about trying to find a solution to the Primal/Eikon problem. Much like the Allagans did. You can disagree with their methods, sure, but the alternative 'solutions' aren't exactly great.

As for Hydaelyn being 'weakened' by Garlemald's actions? Even if that's the case most of the blame can rest on her for not being bloody open and honest with the WoL and Scions. Though since it's heavily implied that all is not as it seems with her it's probably premature to pin the Garleans as the bad guys just yet.

[myahele]

As for Hydaelyn being 'weakened' by Garlemald's actions? Even if that's the case most of the blame can rest on her for not being bloody open and honest with the WoL and Scions. Though since it's heavily implied that all is not as it seems with her it's probably premature to pin the Garleans as the bad guys just yet.

So you're going to blame Hydaelyn for not communicating with the Garleans? Aren't they trying to save her?
I have listed the facts of all Garleans that eventually ended up doing more harm than good to Hydaelyn. Did Hydaelyn say she used most of her strenth against Ultima? Was she not harmed when Bahamut unleashed his fury?

Really the real bad guys here are the Ascians, at least Thordan was able to (maybe) get rid of one of them

[Theodric]

-snip-

No, I'm blaming Hydaelyn for not communicating with anyone. Even the WoL and the Scions are fumbling around in the dark because she isn't open and honest with them despite their continued loyalty. Which suggests she has something to hide. As for the Garleans that you've listed as doing more harm than good...there's only a handful of prominent figures to consider. You're referring to the likes of Nael and Gaius, I imagine? We don't know a whole lot about Varis' motives just yet so we can't speak with the benefit of hindsight.

Still, people around these parts are way too hard on the Garleans. Eorzea itself has harboured numerous individuals who have caused Eorzea all sorts of difficulties and harm so it's not as if it's some sort of pure and righteous place.

-snip-

There's Varis' quote from the encounter in the Sea of Clouds. I can't get online at the moment to check but I'm pretty certain it's along the lines of 'You know as well as we what will ensue should these insatiable beasts be allowed to roam free' as he and his men seek to pursue the Bismarck. Since they were aware of the Archbishop's plan - something that hasn't really been explained - they were also seeking to put a stop to him, too.

Granted, he also implies that he isn't above exterminating 'certain elements' for the greater good but that just ties in with my comparison to Tywin Lannister. They're both ruthless and efficient, not outright evil. It's also worth noting that the WoL and the Scions operate under the exact same code and aren't above exterminating entire elements or groups if they don't align with their own goals. Excuses can be made for this to some extent but it's not as if Eorzea is left a better place for it in many cases. The entire story in Ishgard has highlighted how much is lost during war and infighting.

[Lauront]

Seems to have worked wonders on some. Who knows, we might even get our own FFXIV version of Bush, agitating for war against Garlemald because it has Allagan WMD.

[Theodric]

It's hard to say how much the Garleans know, really. Varis is very interesting since he seems to have deliberately made political maneuvers in his favour to become the Emperor. He reminds me a lot of Vayne Solidor from FFXII in that regard - especially with his statement regarding it being his 'solemn charge as Emperor to bring the Eikons to heel'.

Perhaps he intends to overthrow all deities in order to bring about the age of mortals just like Vayne did...which the Ascians wouldn't tolerate and thus lends credence to the idea that they're deliberately leading the Garleans astray and sabotaging them.

[Belhi]

It's hard to say how much the Garleans know, really. Varis is very interesting since he seems to have deliberately made political maneuvers in his favour to become the Emperor. He reminds me a lot of Vayne Solidor from FFXII in that regard - especially with his statement regarding it being his 'solemn charge as Emperor to bring the Eikons to heel'.

Perhaps he intends to overthrow all deities in order to bring about the age of mortals just like Vayne did...which the Ascians wouldn't tolerate and thus lends credence to the idea that they're deliberately leading the Garleans astray and sabotaging them.

Well, to be fair, the Ascians kind of deliberately try and lead everyone astray and sabotage them. Its kind of their thing. Pretty much if you exist on Hydaelyn, you are a pawn to help bring about the return of Zodiark in the Ascian's view.

As for Garlemald, I think they will be antagonists in 4.0, at least mostly. Garlemald still is working off a expansionist agenda and have a habit of trying to utilise highly risky technology with dangerous amounts of hubris and unless that changes we aren't going to be true friends with time. I do however think we will eventually work with them cause I suspect we will at some point go to Garlemald.

That said, I think we will also certainly have elements within the Ala Mhigan forces that will be antagonists as well. Currently it looks like the set up will be the new Viceroy on one side and Griffin on the other as in the middle with whatever poor sods get stuck there with us.

[Zohar_Lahar]

Starting to look like my prediction was quite accurate.

[Cilia]

I'm peeved both that Nero was able to get into Cartenau, in broad daylight, when we had to pull strings and run a clandestine mission to get there ourselves (for SMN 58 quest), and that he seems to have discarded the character development he got at the end of the Crystal Tower.

I'm not quite sure Ilberd is going to hijack it and use it for the Resistance. I can see it happening, but the how is still a bit of a question.

[Morningstar1337]

I'm peeved both that Nero was able to get into Cartenau, in broad daylight, when we had to pull strings and run a clandestine mission to get there ourselves (for SMN 58 quest), and that he seems to have discarded the character development he got at the end of the Crystal Tower.

I need a reminder on that. What character development did Nero get besides a different reason to bring a Utopia (that can still be adapted to be another reason to prop Garlemald up as such, especially given they try to emulate Allagan technology and culture)