Ilberd

[Lauront]

*words*

How on earth do you think Rome operated? The story, nevertheless, doesn't present them in the same vein as Nazis, and if you want to argue that they don't specifically aim to destroy the Primals for the danger that they pose to Eorzea, back it up.

Not that Ala Mhigo has much of a leg to stand on in this regard, given its own history of aggression. As in, why should I sympathise with them, now that they have befallen the fate that they would have gladly inflicted upon their neighbours.



As for Ilberd, they would need to do a lot of character development to get him in a position fit to do anything as described in the OP.

[Theodric]

Not that Ala Mhigo has much of a leg to stand on in this regard, given its own history of aggression.

That'll just be brushed off as Ala Mhigo supposedly being more 'moderate' and somehow free of blame for many because it had a 'mad ruler'. Something, ironically, that can excuse Garlemald too. Albeit I'm reluctant to consider Varis as unhinged since he's simply very driven. He's a lot like Tywin Lannister - willing to do a lot of shady, questionable things for the perceived greater good. Sadly they're both the sort of characters many here struggle to appreciate to view as anything other than outright evil. I blame the mainstream media's glorification of simplistic morality.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

How on earth do you think Rome operated? The story, nevertheless, doesn't present them in the same vein as Nazis, and if you want to argue that they don't specifically aim to destroy the Primals for the danger that they pose to Eorzea, back it up.

None of it is a direct parallel, though I actually quite like the "Allag as Rome" comparison. I simply said that Garlemald comes off as more of a modern Imperialist dictatorship than an ancient one, and it's entirely because of the way the game itself has presented them to us. You can conjure up potential sympathetic reasons for their actions all you want, but the actual evidence provided in game doesn't support a sympathetic view. Not yet, anyways.

Speaking of evidence! That the game itself has never presented the Garleans as especially concerned for the Planet helps, but as always, my primary source for Garlemald's anti-Primal drive is Moose's The Rise and Fall of the White Raven. It's made pretty clear that Garlemald's first major offensive in Eorzea (after capturing Ala Mhigo) was to control the source of regional Aether in order to prevent Primal summoning because of the difficulties Primals presented in Othard, and that article being endorsed by Fern himself makes me throw quite a bit of stock behind its interpretation of things.

So, yeah. The greater good of Garlean Expansion is their reason for doing what they do. But, if you can find evidence of their Primal crusade being motivated by the greater good of Hydaelyn, I'd love to see it.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Honestly, this whole conquer and oppress thing that Garleamald has going for it started out as them trying to put a lock down on the summoning of primals. So in essence they were trying to save hydaelyn.

It didn't though. This is a common misconception - Garlemald's conquest has nothing to do with the Primals, other than that the Primals are in the way. Their entire opposition to them is that Othard summoned theirs when Garlemald tried to invade, it cost Garlemald dearly, and Garlemald would really rather avoid similar losses in taking Eorzea. That suppressing Primals is pretty good for Hydaelyn is completely coincidental.

[Frederick22]

snip

Totaly agreed with you Hinoto!
Honeslty the garlemand empire looks more like the nazis than romans.
It was the allagans who looked more like romans.

[CyrusArjuna]

Totaly agreed with you Hinoto!
Honeslty the garlemand empire looks more like the nazis than romans.
It was the allagans who looked more like romans.

Eh, that kinda falls flat when you realize that the Allagans took the peoples indigenous to Meracydia, forced them to summon their Primals, then trapped them and their gods in stasis for thousands of years just as a battery.

And as for the summoning in Othard...we have no information about that event other than the fact that it happened. And it obviously happened before the events of 1.0 (or could be retconned to be so). For all we know, their tactic of brainwashing conquered people might have been devised as a Primal countermeasure after huge losses sustained in Othard. The Garlean Empire might have been more pragmatic before the threat of Primals was made evident to them.

[Frederick22]

Eh, that kinda falls flat when you realize that the Allagans took the peoples indigenous to Meracydia, forced them to summon their Primals, then trapped them and their gods in stasis for thousands of years just as a battery.

And as for the summoning in Othard...we have no information about that event other than the fact that it happened. And it obviously happened before the events of 1.0 (or could be retconned to be so). For all we know, their tactic of brainwashing conquered people might have been devised as a Primal countermeasure after huge losses sustained in Othard. The Garlean Empire might have been more pragmatic before the threat of Primals was made evident to them.

Not exacly.

Roman was the biggest empire that ever exited and that lasted most than anyone. They were the most advanced civilisation of those times. In culture, military power and economy. They had no rival that could matched.
Infact despite we are now really much more advanced, it is said that when Rome falled, a lot of the informacion they had was destroyed, so in some small way there was a "regresion". We dont know how it would be if we had recover all, ethier we know if we re-discover it withouth knowing.

So yea, the Allagans look more like the Romans than the Garleans on my opinion.

There's Varis' quote from the encounter in the Sea of Clouds.......

Ok, so your entire point of Garleans are good and they are doing this for the sake of Hydaelyn is based on a vague talk that Varis said?
Varis an emperor and dictator.. yes sure

[Morningstar1337]

Ok, so your entire point of Garleans are good and they are doing this for the sake of Hydaelyn is based on a vague talk that Varis said?
Varis an emperor and dictator.. yes sure

I'm pretty sure he held that viewpoint long before that point in the story.

[PArcher]

Then there's the big twist of irony, their way of trying to stop the primals from being summoned is causing more to be.

[myahele]

I'm pretty sure the Garlean citizens are fine, but the higher ups that are the problem. Still, even if we do liberate Ala Mhigo from Garlean occupation, I just hope it won't be a rehash of Heavensward.

Since it takes 20 years in military service to become a citizen of Garlemald Empire, then I somehow doubt there'll be many and if there are then many of them would be killed via the (possible) war against them.

No matter their "good intentions" we have to keep in mind that it people acting for the sake of Garlemald that have weakened Hydaelyn significantly: Project Meteor eventually unleashing Bahamut thus causing a Calamity. Ultima activating thus draining most of Hydaelyn's strength. I suppose the use of ceruleum (liquid aether) will have consequence, but that's pure speculation for now.

It was also said that echo users are seen as enemies of the Empire.

Beastmen summoning Primals are bad, but primals can be defeated -at great cost- through conventional means.