[Spoilers] The Abilities of Alexander and the Midas Codex

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

So I finished up the Midas quests last night, and I have a few question as I try to organize my thoughts on it:

(1) So Mide is the one who manipulated the Illuminati into summoning Alexander, presumably feeling safe in the belief they couldn't do anything with the construct because they lacked the Codex. But why? Putting aside the complicated nature of two groups summoning the same Primal for different ends (I certainly don't expect Mide to know all the specifics of Primal summoning), why would the Illuminati summon something they can't use without something they don't currently possess? Alexander isn't a machine, it's a manifestation of belief, and even if Mide's original group summoned something that required the Codex to be controlled, there's little reason why Gobbie!Alex should be the same.

(2) The reason the Illuminati can use Alexander to reverse time is because they have a complete Codex and the means to read it, right? But what about their ability to see the future? I'm interested in when and how that ability manifested, because I can't think of anything that implies the Goblins could see the future before the end of A8, yet I can't think of anything that happens in the A8-related quests that would have given them the ability. Obviously they didn't need the Codex for it, because Quickthinks is able to predict the platform jam, and it can't be the kidnapping of Roundrox, because she's only necessary for using the completed Codex, right? So have they been able to do it via their Primal from the start this whole time, and just haven't had the ability to act on the knowledge it gave them? But if they WERE able to do it from the start, then they should have known that Roundrox didn't have the piece they needed when they searched her stuff. So, yeah, colour me confused on that point.

(3) What was the point of the brief side-plot about Mide handing over a fake Codex piece? It didn't seem to actually achieve anything.

(4) Finally! A bit unrelated to the three above, but I'm curious - do we know how what mobs in Gordias and Midas are Gobby-tech, and what are manifestations of the Primal itself? I always assumed Living Liquid was part of the Primal itself, but was never quite sure about the A1 and A4 mecha, and I believe the quests had somebody mention the Goblins actually bringing in materials this time around. So did they construct the Brute Justice and its components, or were they summoned as an aspect of Alexander?

[Zohar_Lahar]

1. The Illuminati were essentially summoning whatever absorbed Dayun.

2. Mide mentioned there was a computer within Alexander that could predict and calculate such upcoming phenomenon. That seemed to be how Quickthinx Allthoughts knew what would happen.

3. Probably buy time for you to go into Midas and wreck stuff.

4. It's hard to say how much was gobbie brainfruit, and how much was a manifestation of the primal itself. You'll note the Manipulator and Brute Justice both bear a curious resemblance to past depictions of Alexander.

[Ultimatecalibur]

For 2) note the book Allthoughts carries. The implication is that it is a prophetic record of the events involved in the questline. Allthoughts seems to be the only goblin who has read the book and is acting with direct knowledge of the events recorded. The question remain of where it came from, but that is likely to be part of the 3.4 questline.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

3 and 4 make sense, thanks Zohar! But regarding 1 and 2:

1. The Illuminati were essentially summoning whatever absorbed Dayun.

Yeah, but, how? The Illuminati presumably don't know/care about Dayun, and considering Primal lore, it wouldn't be the same being unless Mide herself summoned it (unless she did? But my understanding is that she got the Illuminati to do it for her).

I suppose the fact that (a) Primals differ depending on who summons them and with what intent and (b) Mide would have no way of knowing that could end up being a plot point, in that this Alexander NOT the same as the one Dayun summoned. But then the issue of the Enigma Codex as a "key" to Alexander's main abilities remains: why would the Gobbie!Alex need the Enigma Codex to function? Cid says it in the quests themselves: Alexander isn't a machine, it's a Primal, and I can't see a good reason as to why a Primal summoned by the Illuminati would require something that the Illuminati didn't have (or maybe didn't even know about!) to function.

tl;dr: the fact that this Alexander needs the Enigma Codex to function at all implies that it's the same thing that Dayun and co. summoned 3 years back, but I don't see how that could be the case if it was the Illuminati - or anybody but Mide - that summoned it.

2. Mide mentioned there was a computer within Alexander that could predict and calculate such upcoming phenomenon. That seemed to be how Quickthinx Allthoughts knew what would happen.

Yeah, but how long have they had access to it? Since they summoned it? The Illuminati has been misdirected by us plenty of times over the quest chain, which shouldn't have been possible if they could predict the future from the get-go. But if they didn't have access to it from the start...what gave them access to it?

For 2) note the book Allthoughts carries. The implication is that it is a prophetic record of the events involved in the questline. Allthoughts seems to be the only goblin who has read the book and is acting with direct knowledge of the events recorded.

This makes a bit more sense (in that it's not tied to Alexander's abilities), but it begs the same question, since Quickthinks has had it from the start (I believe?).

[Morningstar1337]

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I feel like pointing out and the backstories of recent Primal engernces have a common thead, that thread usually is in black robes, on an apperent crusade to drain Hydealyn of aether and have recently lost 3 of their own before we step foot into Alexander. These 10 "Paragons" are the only ones that taught anyone how to summon primals, from the Allagan Empire all the way to the Beast Tribes and to the top of Ishgard's clergy. With all that in mind, would be far fetched that the Ascians have Manipulated Mide and Dayun into Summoning Alexander the first time? AND might also also contacted the Illuminati as well?

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

While I could absolutely see the Ascians being involved (or not; the original reasons for summoning it make plenty of sense, with or without their involvement), I don't see why that would have resulted in the Illuminati summoning a Codex-dependent Alexander. Our robed friends tend to just goad people into wanting to summon Primals, and then teaching them how to do it, with the exact nature of the Primal entirely dependent on the summoners (hence the variety of Primal forms and temperaments and abilities).

[Morningstar1337]

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If Mide got the Illuminati to summon Alex, it seems possible that she also flaunted the Codex around and the Illuminati, being as lustful for information as the Sharlayan Bibliothecs had the Codex on the mind when the summon happened.

Or maybe An (un)Stable Time Loop is in effect with Illuminati!Alex using is powers which then inspired Mide and Dayun to to summon Original!Alex. Or maybe the Ascians just wanted a time traveling Primal to drain aether more efficiently to further weaken Hydealyn...or maybe that the Ascians and Alexander started Hydaelin's waning power in the first place, but that seems too crackpot and begs the obvious question of "If Ascians did Alexander, then why don;t they use to Save Narbriales/Lahabrea/Igeyorum/ect.?", plus that would connect it too much to the MSQ for a side story.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Yeah, I suppose that could all potentially make sense. And the Illuminati do seem to mostly have the completed Codex before getting Roundrox's piece, so I suppose they weren't entirely without it.

I'm still curious about their precognition, though, and why they don't seem to factor into earlier parts of the story (specifically the searching of Roundrox's stuff).

[ArikDimas]

Wasn't the original Alex that Mide's group summoned never actually defeated, she just put that barrier around it and it just sorta vanished? So wouldn't that mean that Gobbie Alex is just the old Alex re activated from a dormant state? Also in regards to what is gobbietech and what is alex, besides all organic mobs being brought in from the outside (or made using tech inside Alex like the gobbie chimera in M1), I think the main adds that are gobbietech are the mobs that have "gob" somewhere in their name like the Gobwalker in A2 (and Quickthinks version in M3), and the Vangob add that tanks fight when jailed in M3, while all the others are made by Alex.