Aymeric (SPOILERS)

[Lunaxia]

Aymeric needs to screw up...

To be fair, they're not "traditional" Ishgardians, though - they've been treated as outcasts and looked down on simply because of their illegitimate heritage from being children, so it makes sense they're more open-minded and in favour of reform than the average Ishgardian citizen.

And while many players seem to be hoping that Aymeric has a Heroic BSOD and suffers some sort of breakdown like that of Alphinaud at the end of 2.x, like Haurchefant, I think he's already had his a long time ago. They're both characters who have faced hardship, struggled against discrimination and at some point likely experienced a meltdown because of it - but eventually decided they weren't going to let that stop them, overcame it, and became stronger. Which to me is much more refreshing to see than the usual "jaded leader with a bad past" or "sheltered, optimistic hero gets broken down" cliches thrown around in fiction. Aymeric especially already knows the way things work in Ishgard, and has played it to his advantage to get to where he is now. He isn't need of a breakdown just because past experiences haven't turned him into a depressing cynic.

I won't disagree with the point about Estinien and Ysayle, though - they're two of my favourite characters in HW, and their characters' developments are some of the best in the series so far.

I have a suspicion concerning Emannellain after this patch... I'll have to wait until 3.3 to see if I'm right. I hope I'm not.

[myahele]

What we're seeing is pretty much the making of a GC leader (and Ishgardian GC) in Aymeric. Note that all the GC leaders have always been the opposite of their nations cultures.

I don't think there'll be much conflict between AYmeric and WoL/ Alphinaud. If anything I think he'll allow us to try to save Estinien, but will kill him if we fail. Of course, that depends on just how adamant Alphinaud ... maybe this is where Alisae comes in?

[Frederick22]

"The risk is worth the reward.." whre have we heared this before?

I really doesnt give me a good sight

[Vexander]

I never got this feeling that Aymeric isn't 100% on our side. Certainly he has a few qualities of a Chess Master, but I think he has more qualities of a leader. He's iconic, charismatic, knows how to delegate responsibility and work, and has a good ethic for doing his duty. I can't agree with those who say he's too perfect and hasn't messed up, because he has, quite often, and suffered the consequences as well. There's no need to repeat what others have said about the Vault or the stabbing.

If anything, my guess is that Aymeric is slowly coming to terms with the same advice we get from Matoya; how far are we willing to go? I think Aymeric is asking himself the same question. For the good of Ishgard, what is he willing to do? What morals and values are he willing to compromise? The incident with the child being thrown off the Vault in 3.1 probably shook him up pretty badly. There is a power vacuum in Ishgard right now, with the seat of the archbishop vacant. It's unlikely Aymeric could become the next Archbishop, as I believe they're selected from the Clergy. Is he facing the prospect of taking up the crown instead? Of becoming Ishgard's first King in over a thousand years? He'd probably have an easier time securing the crown than the seat of the Archbishop.

Then there are Ishgard's social problems to contend with. How does he improve the quality of life of the lowborn? How does he rectify that with the highborne? How does he change anything without making enemies of those people who have made a life of rising through Ishgard's ranks as they've existed for a thousand years? Imagine if all the people in the Convictory (I believe that's the dragon hunters in Western Coerthas) were suddenly told their accomplishments don't mean anything anymore and they can just go back home?

I think Aymeric is facing the reality that he has to make personal sacrifices before he can bring about an Ishgard greater than it has ever been before, and that even then, he will be engaged in a never-ending war with his own nation to keep Ishgard great.

[Ramesses]

I've seen the WoL's reaction to his offer for a drink thrown around quite a lot as "evidence" that there's something going on with him, but if you read the description for the quest it says quite clearly in that instance you're thinking of Minfilia and don't feel like celebrating after what you've just found out.

Also, Thancred's reluctance was due to him feeling the Ishgardians are relying too much on the WoL; he actually says Aymeric isn't very good at hiding his emotions, though he admires his honesty.

And I'm surprised by how many people think Aymeric is going to throw Estinien away. I don't think he murmured something sinister at the end of the MSQ - it actually says he made some sort of "oath", and I don't see him giving up on his friend just yet. I saw significant parallels between Aymeric shooting Estinogg and the first time they properly met (from Tales of the Dragonsong War.)

I know a lot of people see him as being too "perfect" and are convinced there's a darker/ evil/ different side to his nature we've not seen, but I think we've already seen both sides of him. If you can't see the flaws in his character, you haven't been paying much attention.

Yes, this.

BTW, +1 to you for perfectly stating everything I was going to post. Aymeric has evolved into one of my favourite NPCs ever since he was introduced and I firmly believe he has honorable intentions. What makes him a brilliant charcater in my eyes is his inbred ability to be the kind of leader that Ishgard needs AND deserves... and no he is not perfect at all. In fact, it is because of the "stain" on the origins of his birth that he strives to show others his innate goodness. He has made some mistakes (infact several mistakes in judgement if you have been closely following the dialogue) and that is perfectly normal because you must remember; he is actually still young by many leadership standards.

Nonetheless what I find highly commendable about him is his clear focus in recovering from his mistakes or error of judgement. That's what makes a true leader.

Also, I thoroughly agree; his mutterings to Estinen as he flew off was obviously a silent oath that he would find a way to save his best friend. It seems many people didn't really read the Tales of the Dragonsong War short stories... and if you have formed a long lasting solid bond with a friend in the past, you'll truly understand the nuances of their friendship.

On a political level, I seriously hope that Aymeric would eventually be crowned Princeps or Primate of Ishgard; which should basically be like a ten year term of executive office as leader of the nation, appointed by electorial votes with renewal terms based on a meritocracy system. And being him, he will likely share power with a council made up of Brume officials, the military and officers of the orthodox church.

[Vexander]

On a political level, I seriously hope that Aymeric would eventually be crowned Princeps or Primate of Ishgard; which should basically be like a ten year term of executive office as leader of the nation, appointed by electorial votes with renewal terms based on a meritocracy system. And being him, he will likely share power with a council made up of Brume officials, the military and officers of the orthodox church.

I can't really agree with this. In every game is seems there are people who want a Kingdom to become a Democracy or Republic. Personally I'd rather see a Kingdom remain a Kingdom in a setting where it works just fine. You can have a King and still maintain a level of democracy with a Senate or a Chamber of Representatives comprised of elected officials from settlements and districts of Ishgard passing on recommendations and the likes to said King. Granted I'm not quite sold on Aymeric being a King either if I'm honest.

Pity SE didn't develop a decent Priest to take up the position of Archbishop.

[Ramesses]

I can't really agree with this. In every game is seems there are people who want a Kingdom to become a Democracy or Republic. Personally I'd rather see a Kingdom remain a Kingdom in a setting where it works just fine. You can have a King and still maintain a level of democracy with a Senate or a Chamber of Representatives comprised of elected officials from settlements and districts of Ishgard passing on recommendations and the likes to said King. Granted I'm not quite sold on Aymeric being a King either if I'm honest.

Pity SE didn't develop a decent Priest to take up the position of Archbishop.

Actually, Aymeric becoming "King" was what I initially wanted to write until I remembered the political meanderings going on between the nobles and the low-born citizens. Thus, when one really thinks about it, te Ishgardian citizenry will be loath and reluctant to trade in one aristocratic system for another.

Just think about it... they have spent the last thousand years living within a very rigid aristocratic system that fell apart once the truth of the Four Houses and HolySee was revealed. Will they be really willing to return to being ruled by a King or rather by a meritocracy system (based on one's ability rather than a famous last name) that will essentially heal the rift between the low and high borns?

[Morningstar1337]

I can't really agree with this. In every game is seems there are people who want a Kingdom to become a Democracy or Republic. Personally I'd rather see a Kingdom remain a Kingdom in a setting where it works just fine. You can have a King and still maintain a level of democracy with a Senate or a Chamber of Representatives comprised of elected officials from settlements and districts of Ishgard passing on recommendations and the likes to said King. Granted I'm not quite sold on Aymeric being a King either if I'm honest.

Pity SE didn't develop a decent Priest to take up the position of Archbishop.

The funny thing is that Ishgard is currenly not a Kingdom though. It was a theocracy prior to the events of the game (1.0 likely included) and is only now in the process of metamorphosis into a kingdom.

[Vexander]

The funny thing is that Ishgard is currenly not a Kingdom though. It was a theocracy prior to the events of the game (1.0 likely included) and is only now in the process of metamorphosis into a kingdom.

Yes and no. The quests make it clear it's still a Kingdom, but that the Church rules as the Throne remains vacant, due to the last Prince's decision to abdicate the throne and become the Azure Dragoon. The Archbishop rules in place of the King, but if an heir had been found, well, on paper at least, the Archbishop would go back to simply leading the Church. Of course everything we've seen of Ishgard proves that if an heir had been found they'd have been found the next day face down in the gutters, with, 'Heretics,' being found holding the murder weapons rather conveniently.

Actually, Aymeric becoming "King" was what I initially wanted to write until I remembered the political meanderings going on between the nobles and the low-born citizens. Thus, when one really thinks about it, te Ishgardian citizenry will be loath and reluctant to trade in one aristocratic system for another.

Just think about it... they have spent the last thousand years living within a very rigid aristocratic system that fell apart once the truth of the Four Houses and HolySee was revealed. Will they be really willing to return to being ruled by a King or rather by a meritocracy system (based on one's ability rather than a famous last name) that will essentially heal the rift between the low and high borns?

Depends, I think. I mean, to an extent even the Four High Houses were victims of the Church, as much as the lowborne were. Certainly there would need to be a change in how the Four Houses play into Ishgard's hierarchy, but at the same time, one cannot argue that they haven't done their jobs in protecting Ishgard for so long.

[Esper]

Funny I was just thinking how spiteful Thencred is becoming and pouty and the white hair always a sign of "I'm a bad guy eventually" aymeric would make little sense beyond his daddy being the former archbishop.

While we're on the subject why did they link Shiva and the dragon at the hip in that symbol? (xD crouching elezen)