Aymeric (SPOILERS)

[Wintersandman]

I don't know why but my gut is telling me that Aymeric is a mastermind behind a lot of events that have unfolded.

Initially I liked the guy but in 3.2 he seemed off. He seemed like he was hiding something the entire time. From the first CS I was talking in my FC saying I didn't trust him.

[Wintersandman]

Next when the WoL looked reluctant to have a drink with him I was thinking there was something definitely wrong.

Then an FC member pointed out to me around the grand melee that even Thancred was showing some reluctance.

Lastly, what was he muttering after Nidhogg flew away.

He reminds me of Littlefinger.

[Lunaxia]

Next when the WoL looked reluctant to have a drink with him I was thinking there was something definitely wrong.

Then an FC member pointed out to me around the grand melee that even Thancred was showing some reluctance.

Lastly, what was he muttering after Nidhogg flew away.

He reminds me of Littlefinger.

I've seen the WoL's reaction to his offer for a drink thrown around quite a lot as "evidence" that there's something going on with him, but if you read the description for the quest it says quite clearly in that instance you're thinking of Minfilia and don't feel like celebrating after what you've just found out.

Also, Thancred's reluctance was due to him feeling the Ishgardians are relying too much on the WoL; he actually says Aymeric isn't very good at hiding his emotions, though he admires his honesty.

And I'm surprised by how many people think Aymeric is going to throw Estinien away. I don't think he murmured something sinister at the end of the MSQ - it actually says he made some sort of "oath", and I don't see him giving up on his friend just yet. I saw significant parallels between Aymeric shooting Estinogg and the first time they properly met (from Tales of the Dragonsong War.)

I know a lot of people see him as being too "perfect" and are convinced there's a darker/ evil/ different side to his nature we've not seen, but I think we've already seen both sides of him. If you can't see the flaws in his character, you haven't been paying much attention.

[Kallera]

And I'm surprised by how many people think Aymeric is going to throw Estinien away....
I know a lot of people see him as being too "perfect" and are convinced there's a darker/ evil/ different side to his nature we've not seen, but I think we've already seen both sides of him...

"If I stray in my remarks, I ask that you trust my judgement..." not sure where he did...which leaves what we didn't hear.

I don't think it is a matter of there being a darker side to him so much that it plays to a tragic flaw. Right now, the only people we know are resolved to save Estinien now are our character and Alphinaud. Unless this was stated earlier in heavensward, I think Aymeric doesn't know of this. what he does know is that he tried swinging for the fences on peace multiple times and they have been ending in disaster.

Right now, the Nidhogg possesed Estinien offers a tempting target: peace cannot be earned while Nidhogg lives, and through this, there is more to gain with Estinien's corpse than his friendship. By killing him and making it clear Nidhogg is dead, Aymeric gains the peace with the dragons, silence from dissenters, and Ishgard's freedom from the Dragonsong war. Literally everything to gain for him and those interested in those goals, and so little to lose.

all Aymeric needs to do is kill one angry, vengeful, dragon possessed friend already out for his hide to get it.

in contrast, Alphinaud and the main character's reason for saving Estinien are personal and complex, he is a friend, and having seen enough friends die to our enemies, we don't want to abandon him to the monsterous Nidhogg. We're not even sure of how, only that we must try to save him, not merely for his sake, but our own.

Unless someone gives up here, this is a plot powder keg dying to go off.

[Lunaxia]

"If I stray in my remarks, I ask that you trust my judgement..." not sure where he did...which leaves what we didn't hear.

I don't think it is a matter of there being a darker side to him so much that it plays to a tragic flaw. Right now, the only people we know are resolved to save Estinien now are our character and Alphinaud. Unless this was stated earlier in heavensward, I think Aymeric doesn't know of this.

Right now, the Nidhogg possesed Estinien offers a tempting target: peace cannot be earned while Nidhoog lives. by killing him and making it clear he is dead, Aymeric gains the peace with the dragons, silence from dissenters, and Ishgard's freedom from the Dragonsong war. Literally everything to gain for him and those interested in those goals, and so little to lose.

all Aymeric needs to do is kill one angry, vengeful, dragon possessed friend already out for his hide to get it.

in contrast, Alphinaud and the main character's reason for saving Estinien are personal and complex, he is a friend, and having seen enough friends die to our enemies, we don't want to abandon him to the monsterous Nidhogg. We're not even sure of how, only that we must try.

Unless someone gives up here, this is a plot powder keg dying to go off.

We can't ever know for certain, of course, but I think he was probably going to give a predictable "let man and dragon make a new start as friends etc. etc." speech, but after the protester incident he ended up changing it to acknowledging what the people of Ishgard have gone through but asking them to let go of it for the sake of the future.

We don't know that Aymeric isn't resolved to rescuing Estinien, though - he's been quiet on this since it happened, and the end of this patch's MSQ was the first time we've seen him be directly confronted with it (which leads me to believe this will be brought up as an important point in 3.3.) Killing Estinien isn't "so little to lose" for him, either - his emotions will be even more complex than Alphinaud's due to their history together.

I predict him being pressured by Ishgard to sacrifice Estinien, and possibly giving the appearance of going along with it or being indifferent - then ultimately reveal he's been planning a way to save him all along. A lot of his moments in the MSQ hint towards this.

Either way, I just hope he doesn't turn out to be a second Haurchefant... the sudden focus on his and the WoL's relationship has me worried.

[Ramesses]

I've seen the WoL's reaction to his offer for a drink thrown around quite a lot as "evidence" that there's something going on with him, but if you read the description for the quest it says quite clearly in that instance you're thinking of Minfilia and don't feel like celebrating after what you've just found out.

Also, Thancred's reluctance was due to him feeling the Ishgardians are relying too much on the WoL; he actually says Aymeric isn't very good at hiding his emotions, though he admires his honesty.

And I'm surprised by how many people think Aymeric is going to throw Estinien away. I don't think he murmured something sinister at the end of the MSQ - it actually says he made some sort of "oath", and I don't see him giving up on his friend just yet. I saw significant parallels between Aymeric shooting Estinogg and the first time they properly met (from Tales of the Dragonsong War.)

I know a lot of people see him as being too "perfect" and are convinced there's a darker/ evil/ different side to his nature we've not seen, but I think we've already seen both sides of him. If you can't see the flaws in his character, you haven't been paying much attention.

Yes, this.

BTW, +1 to you for perfectly stating everything I was going to post. Aymeric has evolved into one of my favourite NPCs ever since he was introduced and I firmly believe he has honorable intentions. What makes him a brilliant charcater in my eyes is his inbred ability to be the kind of leader that Ishgard needs AND deserves... and no he is not perfect at all. In fact, it is because of the "stain" on the origins of his birth that he strives to show others his innate goodness. He has made some mistakes (infact several mistakes in judgement if you have been closely following the dialogue) and that is perfectly normal because you must remember; he is actually still young by many leadership standards.

Nonetheless what I find highly commendable about him is his clear focus in recovering from his mistakes or error of judgement. That's what makes a true leader.

Also, I thoroughly agree; his mutterings to Estinen as he flew off was obviously a silent oath that he would find a way to save his best friend. It seems many people didn't really read the Tales of the Dragonsong War short stories... and if you have formed a long lasting solid bond with a friend in the past, you'll truly understand the nuances of their friendship.

On a political level, I seriously hope that Aymeric would eventually be crowned Princeps or Primate of Ishgard; which should basically be like a ten year term of executive office as leader of the nation, appointed by electorial votes with renewal terms based on a meritocracy system. And being him, he will likely share power with a council made up of Brume officials, the military and officers of the orthodox church.

[Vexander]

On a political level, I seriously hope that Aymeric would eventually be crowned Princeps or Primate of Ishgard; which should basically be like a ten year term of executive office as leader of the nation, appointed by electorial votes with renewal terms based on a meritocracy system. And being him, he will likely share power with a council made up of Brume officials, the military and officers of the orthodox church.

I can't really agree with this. In every game is seems there are people who want a Kingdom to become a Democracy or Republic. Personally I'd rather see a Kingdom remain a Kingdom in a setting where it works just fine. You can have a King and still maintain a level of democracy with a Senate or a Chamber of Representatives comprised of elected officials from settlements and districts of Ishgard passing on recommendations and the likes to said King. Granted I'm not quite sold on Aymeric being a King either if I'm honest.

Pity SE didn't develop a decent Priest to take up the position of Archbishop.

[Ramesses]

I can't really agree with this. In every game is seems there are people who want a Kingdom to become a Democracy or Republic. Personally I'd rather see a Kingdom remain a Kingdom in a setting where it works just fine. You can have a King and still maintain a level of democracy with a Senate or a Chamber of Representatives comprised of elected officials from settlements and districts of Ishgard passing on recommendations and the likes to said King. Granted I'm not quite sold on Aymeric being a King either if I'm honest.

Pity SE didn't develop a decent Priest to take up the position of Archbishop.

Actually, Aymeric becoming "King" was what I initially wanted to write until I remembered the political meanderings going on between the nobles and the low-born citizens. Thus, when one really thinks about it, te Ishgardian citizenry will be loath and reluctant to trade in one aristocratic system for another.

Just think about it... they have spent the last thousand years living within a very rigid aristocratic system that fell apart once the truth of the Four Houses and HolySee was revealed. Will they be really willing to return to being ruled by a King or rather by a meritocracy system (based on one's ability rather than a famous last name) that will essentially heal the rift between the low and high borns?

[Morningstar1337]

I can't really agree with this. In every game is seems there are people who want a Kingdom to become a Democracy or Republic. Personally I'd rather see a Kingdom remain a Kingdom in a setting where it works just fine. You can have a King and still maintain a level of democracy with a Senate or a Chamber of Representatives comprised of elected officials from settlements and districts of Ishgard passing on recommendations and the likes to said King. Granted I'm not quite sold on Aymeric being a King either if I'm honest.

Pity SE didn't develop a decent Priest to take up the position of Archbishop.

The funny thing is that Ishgard is currenly not a Kingdom though. It was a theocracy prior to the events of the game (1.0 likely included) and is only now in the process of metamorphosis into a kingdom.

[FJerome]

Also, I thoroughly agree; his mutterings to Estinen as he flew off was obviously a silent oath that he would find a way to save his best friend. It seems many people didn't really read the Tales of the Dragonsong War short stories... and if you have formed a long lasting solid bond with a friend in the past, you'll truly understand the nuances of their friendship.

I also think he was saying something to do with Estinien.

Really, it may just be that Aymeric's the Stiff Upper Lip Champion of Eorzea. After all, despite his claiming his wounds bothered him when he became too impassioned, bro was fine in the Grand Tourney. His injuries only bothered him when he had to plan the possibility of killing his best friend.

. . . Mind I would like to see some more of that actually in-game? In-character I think I'd be rather weirded out by how outwardly calm he's being about having ordered the execution of his own father.