[dev1032] Redesigning Battle Regimes. Unity System

[Tchel]

Reflecting on FFXI's Skill chains/Magic Bursts and FFXIV's current Battle Regime system, I feel that the current regime system is inadequate, confusing, and slow, but that its core goals are good.

The goal of XI's systems and XIV's systems are to cause players to work together when executing actions instead of just performing abilities that they want. The concept is "if I work together with my teammates, we can do extra damage." However, the current system has many problems, all of which have been discussed at great length in other posts. Therefore, I propose a new system, which is tentatively titled the "Unity" system, which contains Unity Actions and Chain actions.

The system would have 2 distinct type of actions. Actions where 2 or more players (based on the unity action chosen) both choose the same action to perform, and when they both have adequate stamina, the action is performed. Ex: A gladiator selects the "Magic Blade" Unity Action, while a Conjurer selects "Fire Blade." Once they both have enough stamina, the action is performed, in which conjurer casts a spell, fire appears on the Gladiator's blade, and he attacks for increased fire damage. This attack's strength would be more than just using similar stamina cost attacks.

When Player one uses his first action, an icon will appear above his head, and it will be indicated in the chat log that he is using a Unity Action. This way other players know someone is trying to do a Unity action without having to spam in chat.

The second type of attacks would be similar to skill chains/battle regimes, called Chain Actions.. I choose the appropriate chain action , and perform it. Within a time period another person must select another appropriate unity action, and so on, until a max of each party member performing an action on the mob. Once the actions are all performed, the chain is closed either via a single party member using a closing move, or the entire party using the same closing move. The closing move deals damage/heals based on the number of actions performed, and applies debuff(s)/buff(s) based on the actions performed.

Ex: Party member one uses a chain Fire spell, party member two then uses a chain lancer attack. Then they both use "Slow Finish" to end the chain. This attack deals damage based on quantity of moves, and slows the target.

You could have chain finishes that deal damage based on number of debuffs on target, one that adds debuffs based on number of different elemental attacks done, one based on simply number of attacks in the chain. etc. etc.

The goal here is to encourage people to work together, but not require any huge time investment during combat. The amount of coordination is no worse than a skill chain used to be, and while the Unity chain finishes would require the most coordination, since you have to do skills in an order, and then all do the same move, these attacks would be the strongest to compensate.


To sum up the actual abilities: Unity Actions: Both chars perform an action together. Chain actions: Party performs various actions in sequence and then finishes chain together.

Next, some system things: A PC builds up Unity points when he performs actions on a target while in a party. Unity points decrease overtime when one is in passive mode. The amount of unity points per action is based on the stamina cost. A simple attack may be worth 100 points, while casting water may be worth 200.
Next: Above the skill bar would be a unity bar on which one would place unity attacks. Unity attacks would be set ahead of time and cost points to set, like other actions. Setting a unity action costs UP not regular AP. So one could set "Magic Blade" at UP of 2, and then Slow finish for 3 UP.

Finally: the goal is for many of these attacks to be relatively cheap. So "Spell Blade" may cost only 500 unity points to activate, so about 5 regular attacks. This would make combat more more dynamic in a party.

[Steggun]

I would take a system similar to this over the current BR system any day of the week.

[Zhinse]

I kind of like how Battle regimens are right now compared to your suggested system.

My problems is with another bar to monitor and manage and the needed retooling of all the classes to fit the system.

[Zhinse]

ESAR,

I think that would be an interesting way to get around it. I was thinking of what if when you selected an attack for battle regimen que, that it eats up that part of the stamina bar and does not let it recover while its up in que, allowing you to attack while who ever is initiating can time the actual BR. The problem with this idea lied with what if you wanted to stack buffs or debuffs before the attack? I think if the game had action queing it could solve that problem, but then the problem lies with what if the que went over the stamina limits and what happens to the recast timers of abilities in the que.

BR's aren't that hard to do, but they were definitely designed for a different pace of combat.

[Danniedeadboy]

Problem with Battle Regimen that i've noticed is that it locks up and you have to disengage and put weapon away in order exit regimen, second part is that you cant attack while locked in Battle Regimen and if you're waiting for someone to build up TP for Regimen you lose Damage done to mob because of this. other than that if done with experienced members in the party it seems to work flawlessly

[darkstarpoet1]

Problem with Battle Regimen that i've noticed is that it locks up and you have to disengage and put weapon away in order exit regimen, second part is that you cant attack while locked in Battle Regimen and if you're waiting for someone to build up TP for Regimen you lose Damage done to mob because of this. other than that if done with experienced members in the party it seems to work flawlessly

when our ls gets together to do nm's or aother high lvl mobs that we use battle regimen on we use voice chat so the regimen does not become a major lag issue. to me the best way to get a group battle regimen is to use your party and predetermine who you run yours after. if your group is split into multiple groups of smaller battle regimens instead of a single big one they seem to fly through and you are always healed. i have liked the 5 man br rotation to where the same 5 goes and soon and their regimen goes off the next group of 5 goes. if you run such there is almost always a regimen going off even if it takes a turn of light strikes to keep the regimen in rotation. remember you can debuff mobs using certain base attacks so they can be used on low tp skills in that thinking.

[Linnear]

If there was an extended battle queue in play that allowed you to input a few commands in place, while you quickly selected your attack, and rather then keeping locked in, allow you to keep inputting commands while you waited for everyone else. The current regimen system wouldn't be that bad.

Esar I must admit I enjoy reading your retorts on most threads, so pelase do not take this negatively but when you reply you always talk about how the current system can work and does work. I admit there is a lot of things that can be done with the current system, however, being able to work in the current system does not mean that the current BR system is the best option for SE or FFXIV. I commend you on sugestions that will help make the current system more functional, but the feeling I get from some members of the community, if not most of the members, is that they dislike the idea of the BR system. 8 man BR chains just seems like running a maccro with 8 different coders, each one responding to a command given. Granted any chain system is essentially that but the BR system FELLs like it, it just feels like being slaped in the back of the head and told to hit one button once in a while. At least if there is a timing aspect to it and the abilities required for success were fewer or gave different results, (like the SC system) it might be more fun. The damage benefit from it so great that the everything else you do in the fight seems inconsequesential. Timed actions just feel better, the proponents for the BR all say it is usefull and it works (kind of) but none of them seem to say it is FUN or it feels good or you get a sensation of satisfaction out of it, and the fact that these sentiments are not part of the debate, I would have to ask if they are even present.

The utility system being voiced out here sounds interesting, I would need to run it though a couple more times to make sure I understand it fully. In the mena time I want to encourage peoples ideas, they are interesting and even if they might not make it into FFXIV they can bring good arguements for the change of the current system.

[Lilyflower]

I do think there needs to be more Interactivity in parties in the game and more incentive to be in parties. So I agree with the original creators comments. One of the things that was nice about FFXI was the ability to deal more damage by planning and focusing Skillchains/Magic Bursts and overall doing better damage.

[YUGON]

A problem I see in every thread about BR, SC, Unity system or whatever, is that... why to bother on using any of this, If any mob may die in less than 10 sec??

It would only be useful for NM's, and a system that it's only used on Big bosses... it probably wouldn't be used for many people.

First of all, let's SE redo all the battle system, and we can start speculating about BR, SC or a whole new system.

[Rhomagus]

I like the idea of the unity actions. I really liked the idea of combining moves with other characters from other games like Vivi and Steiner from IX, Palom and Porom from IV, and Chrono Triggers dual/triple tech system. I would like it if a special animation resulted from such moves like the introductory movie.

I don't like it when introductory movies shown cool things that you can't do in game. XI had the same problem with visually teasing a sort of "combo-cast" system in the opening cinematic. I hope XIV introduces a system that reflects what the Lalafell and the Hyur do against the Malboro in the opening sequence.

In my opinion, the concept behind Battle Regimens is fine. Their implementation leaves a bit to be desired. I'd like the ability to set actions without being locked into not being able to do anything. I think your chain system needlessly complicates things but I like your Unity system.