Novice Network Feedback for SE

[Kosmos992k]

Yes, this kind of vote kick mechanism would be a very good idea, it would prevent mote kick abuse, and it would also allow the mentors as a group to self police the channel.

I wanted to add something I posted while discussing this idea with someone else in another topic;

Personally, I think two is too small a number as it would allow a small number of people to effectively dominate the NN by kicking people of their choice. I'd suggest more mentors need to agree. I not sure that 50% would work because that potentially could run into many Mentors who are AFK, or just not interested in voting. What might be a workable situation would be for the vote kick to pick 5 random Mentors who are online, and request their vote on the kick. If the majority of them agree, the kick proceeds, if not, then the vote kick is cancelled. As you say the kicked person can appeal to a GM, but by using a voting system like this, it really removes the liability from individual mentors when it comes to kicking others, as well as making the kick more of a community response, than a personal one.

This last point is something i think is important because we have moderation power if we are mentors, and accidental or intentional misuse of that can be a problem on both sides of the coin. But if the power were tempered some, and it was more a community response in terms of kicking someone, it would carry more authority, and take some of the responsibility from individual players. Nothing is perfect of course, but it could work.

[ShizuCheese]

I know I'm repeating things people have already kind of said, but I honestly think this is the best way to go about fixing a good chunk of the problems people are running into, plus it involves features that are already in the game:

>Only have mentors added to Novice chat if they have their status actively set to "Mentor". That way, you don't have people crowding up the chat that aren't actually interested in helping people atm because even mentors have their own stuff they need/ want to do in the game (eg: If I'm working on the latest installment to MSQ or helping people in my FC, I may not have the time/ energy to also be helping people in novice chat). Also, they should change it so you can change your online status from your character page, rather than by editing your search info, for the sake of simplicity.

>Have people who are AFK for 10 minutes be autokicked, same as when you're in a duty.

>Make banning a vote-dismiss feature. Regarding Kosmos' concern about if 50% would work, I feel like my two previous suggestions would help curb that, and if 50% is really too high of a percentage than I'd say at least make it 25%.

[yexie]

On Jenova the Novice channel is seemingly working as intended. Sometimes it gets off-topic but overall we reign ourselves in and point out when people are doing something we don't think belongs in the channel, such as FC self-promotion. Other than basic tact, we've helped out a number of new players and had a few who politely didn't want to be a part of the system. Not quite sure if it's just a player quality issue or what but as I said it's operating well thus far.

I can say the same about Siren. It's working as intended and it's actually a pleasure to watch, the sprouts seem to like it too. If it goes off topic (like hunts being called out) we simply discuss if it's ok or not. Even at times when I felt it was a bit too busy (while I'm in pvp wanting to see the call outs in alliance chat), when I looked it was no crazy spam but rather mentors talking with sprouts about parts of the game and that has to be ok.

I never really had many bad experiences with rudeness in the game to begin with, but after a little break that I took I feel like people have become even nicer now.

[MasuraoTsukino]

Honestly, I loved the idea of helping new members in the game, but this system is so flawed.

I would like to see maybe multiple mentor channels, or dividing it up, since I main BLM and sort of caster roles, I would much prefer answering BLM/SMN questions then say BRD or MCH (which are not roles that I am particularly good at). So maybe divide up by what role the sprout is learning or wants to be a part of. Have a caster chat, a healer chat, a tank chat, a melee dps chat, etc. like that so mentors can help better these roles.

[MasuraoTsukino]

Also maybe having a quest at like level 2 or 5 or something that introduces Sprouts to the novice network and ask them to join would be much nicer to them, then just throwing them all in there on login. Plus maybe putting that person as an NPC in the three major city states for them to go to each time would make sure Novice would be filled with Sprouts who want help. A decent percentage of sprouts are invited to play FFXIV by a veteran member already and probably are already a part of an FC or LS with their friends who are helping them out.

In its current state, I think having the option to opt in to the Novice Network, and the mentor roulette should be separate. I love helping people in dungeons and trials where I can be one-on-one/three/seven, but helping people in chat is already really overwhelming. This might help alleviate mentors taking up space in the mentor chat as well, saving it for people who are online and want to help.

[silentwindfr]

my most important grip about the mentor system and novice channel is about the fact that if you are a mentor level 60 and team with a low player for show him the rope and such, this player loose the boost of exp. since as high level player you will drain all the exp. i think when a mentor team's up with a novice he need to be automatically sync. for make the bonus exp and the sharing of knowledge more profitable for both player.

about the channel novice, i see only two problem there, you have one group of people that want that the channel was only used by the novice with the mentor that only answer the question of the novice. means the mentor and novice can't really discuss and create bond of trust.
on other side you can have people that only get the mentor for the fame it bring, not for help people. sadly this two group are the extreme.... both side are wrong, the novice channel is for make new player meet veteran that will answer question, but at the same time, be part of the server. i have seen people say that new player are too scared to bother people to talk on the channel, because the mentor was talking. if the channel is barrens of question, you can't expect the mentor to not talk between them.

more important, no one have the all-knowledge. i, as mentor, can know stuff, but i'm not a specialist in all, then time to time, i'm quite happy to learn some trick or some information that myself don't know. indeed maybe this information will not be usefull to the new player today.... but in the futur they can remember have read this information.

anyway, all i try to say, it's try to stay civil and respect everybody, if the person is not insulting or begin to throw a tantrum on the channel you have no right to say him to not do it. if the question from the novice are answered, it's the most important.

about the kick, we had a situation a bit early with a novice that was invited to the channel without be asked or tell him/her what it was about, this novice did begin to say he didn't want to be there and act quite rude...acting like a children throwing a tantrum, one of the mentor did take on him to kick the novice that was clearly unhappy to be there. indeed it will have been better to notify him/her. but the mentor was.... how say almost judged guilty to be ass for this. when after all the novice was disrupting the channel and wasn't want to be there, worst this novice did begin to tell the mentor and... being more rude with him because of the kick.

Respect is in the two sense, mentor must respect novice and help them, but novice mustn't take the channel like a right... we are ready to help them, but we are not them slave. it's a volunteer jobs, right, but novice must show respect and if them don't follow rule be kicked at least until they calm down. but it worth for the mentor too. is not a right to be a mentor, if they don't follow the channel and disprut it. making impossible to help novice, because he is aggressive for X reason they can be kicked, no need to ask 50% of the mentor to be ok with it.

if abuse appear, the GM will take care of it. it's not our jobs, as mentor our jobs is to help new player and make them feel part of the server.

ps: if you feel it's hard to use the channel, i advice you to create a LS it work the same and you can limitate the number of mentor or novice inside.

[XiXiQ]

Been thinking outside the square on this issue, the main problem to me is the channel is simply too large (and I've still never got in once LOL). Creating smaller ones on a needs basis seems more useful.

for instance, say a limit of 50. That could be 5-10 mentors and the rest sprouts. when that is full, start a new one and invite 5-10 more random mentors while the spouts start coming in. I'm not sure what a sweet spot for numbers might be, I suspect smaller is better. I'm suggesting random because on busy servers most never get onto the huge channel anyway. If a mentor leaves the channel, or afk for a set period, another invite goes out to replace them. Novices can also fill in spaces as they come in. In both cases they should have to respond to an invite, this should help ensure only those interested are going in. Some kind of anti-bot mechanism would help, but probably too complicated.

I think this will make it less daunting for new guys, less likely for mentors to be dragged into off-topic realms, so overall more likely to at least work as intended.

although I suspect for many, we'll still never get in LOL. You might end up needing less than the 100 now.

[Lagarin]

I made a separate post over here (without realizing this post existed, my apologies) about a potential mentor commendation system to be used as a grading scale to help keep good mentors in place in the Novice Network. Let's face it, getting certain achievements in the game doesn't mean one is a good mentor.

Here is a link to the suggestion: Mentor Commendation System Ideas and suggestions to expand that idea would be welcome.

A few other ideas and suggestions to note:

1. The bot situation is getting out of hand. Bots will enter the Novice Network on their own and bog down the list, leaving Mentors to clean up this mess. This is neither enjoyable, nor a good utilization of our time. Please consider a way to deal with this problem.
2. New members being invited by Mentors they know is great! New members being coldly invited by Mentors is terrible! There needs to be a system in place to invite new members to the Novice Network that gives them the option to opt-in with the full knowledge of what they are getting into, and, perhaps a help menu with a run through on how to change their color settings in the chat log and the text location. Right now, our newest members feel very unsure what is going on because Mentors have become much like sales people pitching the Novice Network and to them instead of the game officially inviting them to it. Please consider adding it as part of the introductory process.
3. Mentors who afk for more than a certain amount of time should be automatically removed from the channel to make room for new mentors.
4. Make Mentoring more specialized! Many of us in this game are better skilled at specific tasks. We might have accomplished a great many things, but one of us might be a more adept tank than a carpenter, for example. Give us a way to narrow down our specialized fields and, perhaps combine this with the above mentioned smaller room option. Allowing new users the chance to seek out specialized Mentors for their specific questions. That way an upcoming Warrior can ask their question to someone (or a room full of someones) who knows exactly what they need. Don't get rid of our community building overall room, but let our sprouts find us for when they need a specific type of person for a specific question. If we could have a specialized chat for say, healers or tanks, where they could talk about their roles and what they do without bothering others that would be a big help.

[Galgarion]

Grrrraaaaah.

Playing on a new server with an old friend who's new to the game.

Invited against my will and without my consent into Novice chat.

Made a captive member of an audience of trolls.

Informed I can't leave for 40 hours. RAGE ensues.

Scoured Google for a solution. (It's /bstatusoff)

Mentors: Please don't invite someone into the Novice Network without their consent.

[Mycow8me]

Grrrraaaaah.

Playing on a new server with an old friend who's new to the game.

Invited against my will and without my consent into Novice chat.

Made a captive member of an audience of trolls.

Informed I can't leave for 40 hours. RAGE ensues.

Scoured Google for a solution. (It's /bstatusoff)

Mentors: Please don't invite someone into the Novice Network without their consent.

This is actually another reason i hate this LS styled mentor support. I dont want to bother people with invites, id rather they have the option to decide for themselves when they need help.