RPGsite Interviews Yoshi P.

[Alerion]

For some unfathomable reason people are actually against jumping. I don't get it. Do you honestly like being stuck to the ground? Maybe you enjoy getting stuck on objects or terrain that should be easily clearable? Or perhaps you just like sliding up and down the side of a hill. Well I don't, and if the world's leading MMOs are anything to go by (and they are) neither do the majority of MMO gamers.

While I understand the "but I don't want to watch everyone spam jump!" argument, it's really a silly one. So because you don't want to see people freely moving their character as they please you're on the side of the argument that uses dated concepts and limits the overall gameplay?

It's time to come out of your shells and realize these things simply make a game better. Being able to freely move is a standard, and rightly so, that shouldn't even need to be discussed.

Fact is: in today's MMO, there's a need for jumping and swimming. Jumping not only adds to a free moving fluid gameplay experience, it can also be used in in-game PvE mechanics, instantly adding a new layer to be developed upon. Swimming should also be added for the same reasons, to promote a free, open and fluid world. Jumping or swimming out of bounds? Take damage over time. Others have done it and it worked out well.

Long gone should be the days of static cling and invisible wall.

[Jennestia]

For some unfathomable reason people are actually against jumping. I don't get it. Do you honestly like being stuck to the ground?

Problem is, jump is only an animation in the majority of MMOs that have it. It doesn't even let you bypass obstacles or explore more areas (which btw, the game has to be designed to be explorable via jump/swimming.) So all it would be is just adding an animation.

it can also be used in in-game PvE mechanics

Yet most MMOs it's not, which is why there are many that don't see the need for it. If this MMO was an Ys game, you better believe there better be a proper jump feature implemented.

Swimming should also be added for the same reasons, to promote a free, open and fluid world

Game has to be designed for it, it wouldn't promote anything really if it's just a feature slapped in (which it generally is in most games, notice how swimming segments are all generally the same?)

[Seirra_Lanzce]

Problem is, jump is only an animation in the majority of MMOs that have it. It doesn't even let you bypass obstacles or explore more areas (which btw, the game has to be designed to be explorable via jump/swimming.) So all it would be is just adding an animation.

Yet most MMOs it's not, which is why there are many that don't see the need for it. If this MMO was an Ys game, you better believe there better be a proper jump feature implemented.

Game has to be designed for it, it wouldn't promote anything really if it's just a feature slapped in (which it generally is in most games, notice how swimming segments are all generally the same?)

Jen o Jen, :< i have to say you are wrong about Jump being an animation only...

During my days in WoW, especially Burning Crusade period, Jump is needed to avoid several laser beams and many skills that burns the floor that i need to evade, so yes, jump has it purpose in most games even MMOs.

[Jennestia]

Jen o Jen, :< i have to say you are wrong about Jump being an animation only...

During my days in WoW, especially Burning Crusade period, Jump is needed to avoid several laser beams and many skills that burns the floor that i need to evade, so yes, jump has it purpose in most games even MMOs.

I didn't say all games, most games it's just an animation, because the game's engine still acts as if you're walking which means what you can't bypass by walking/running, you won't be able to while "jumping". This is why when people refer to Jump people go straight to WoW, because it's one of the few that actually made use of the jump feature. Even in Rift it's still kind of clunky because the engine doesn't know how to react at times. It's also a little weird in Tera as well, but that's more of a latency problem.

Most MMOs didn't use it beyond giving you the illusion you're not glued down. Some even let you jump twice to do a flip, which served no purpose at all because monsters could still hit you. So yeah, only a select few MMOs actually made jump an important mechanic, it's generally an afterthought in most implementations.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

I didn't say all games, most games it's just an animation, because the game's engine still acts as if you're walking which means what you can't bypass by walking/running, you won't be able to while "jumping". This is why when people refer to Jump people go straight to WoW, because it's one of the few that actually made use of the jump feature. Even in Rift it's still kind of clunky because the engine doesn't know how to react at times. It's also a little weird in Tera as well, but that's more of a latency problem.

Most MMOs didn't use it beyond giving you the illusion you're not glued down. Some even let you jump twice to do a flip, which served no purpose at all because monsters could still hit you. So yeah, only a select few MMOs actually made jump an important mechanic, it's generally an afterthought in most implementations.

So if Yoshi actually make the jump to be more a featured base (dodge ground spell like quake or something) then jump going to be valid for a reason :| don't you think so? They are Square Enix you know

[Alerion]

Problem is, jump is only an animation in the majority of MMOs that have it. It doesn't even let you bypass obstacles or explore more areas (which btw, the game has to be designed to be explorable via jump/swimming.) So all it would be is just adding an animation.

It certainly isn't only an animation in a certain genre leading title. This is what I'd like to see and honestly I'll be sad if those in the stone age convince Yoshida otherwise.

Game has to be designed for it, it wouldn't promote anything really if it's just a feature slapped in (which it generally is in most games, notice how swimming segments are all generally the same?)

Slapped in or not, specific purpose or not, it needs to be added. Yoshida said it himself. He's aiming to be number one. It'll never happen with invisible walls everywhere and being chained to the ground.

He has this chance to do it right and I certainly hope he does.

[Tsukino]

The one thing that we can do, no matter how many people decide to pay or not to pay—we have to continue showing how serious we are about keeping the promises we broke. Getting back the trust, showing them we’re serious, and that means some will come back for the PC version, and the PS3 launch. Perhaps if they see we’re working hard on it, maybe they’ll want to try it before the PS3 launch. We’re not going to change anything based on the numbers, we’re going to do what we’ve promised.

I really liked this response. He does an excellent job of being both confident in the work they're doing and humble in the face of what people will choose to do with their subscription fees. As someone who has always been worried of "what if Wada just decides it's a white elephant one day and cans the whole thing" this statement gives me more confidence in sticking with the game.

For some unfathomable reason people are actually against jumping. I don't get it. Do you honestly like being stuck to the ground? Maybe you enjoy getting stuck on objects or terrain that should be easily clearable? Or perhaps you just like sliding up and down the side of a hill. Well I don't, and if the world's leading MMOs are anything to go by (and they are) neither do the majority of MMO gamers.

While I understand the "but I don't want to watch everyone spam jump!" argument, it's really a silly one. So because you don't want to see people freely moving their character as they please you're on the side of the argument that uses dated concepts and limits the overall gameplay?

It's time to come out of your shells and realize these things simply make a game better. Being able to freely move is a standard, and rightly so, that shouldn't even need to be discussed.

Fact is: in today's MMO, there's a need for jumping and swimming. Jumping not only adds to a free moving fluid gameplay experience, it can also be used in in-game PvE mechanics, instantly adding a new layer to be developed upon. Swimming should also be added for the same reasons, to promote a free, open and fluid world. Jumping or swimming out of bounds? Take damage over time. Others have done it and it worked out well.

Long gone should be the days of static cling and invisible wall.

Jumping looks stupid. The only obstacle anyone would probably even think of jumping to clear would be a gap with a massive fall (or maybe a moving obstacle like a jump rope). Jumping in robes is difficult, while jumping in full plate mail is all but impossible.

As mentioned, most (practically all) MMOs that have a jump button don't even use it for anything. It basically exists entirely because players are used to pressing it and having their character not feel "stuck" against all logic. I'd much rather see a kind of contextual climbing, where our characters would take a bigger, slower step against some rocky terrain, or use their hands to climb up a small hill or cliff. You could even jump a couple feet up to reach for a ledge to pull yourself up onto. All logical actions that would at least be somewhat plausible, instead of jumping five feet in the air while wearing 150 pounds of steel to accomplish nothing.

Now, if there were some more reasons to jump, that would also be somewhat OK, making the game more action-based in some ways. If they actually did add areas with floating platforms or gaps that needed to be traversed by jumping, or bosses like some in WoW currently where jumping is one of the things you actually need to do, or perhaps if it can help shake off a status ailment like being caught on fire, then it might be worth adding. If it's just so people can "feel" like they do in other MMOs because their character model can leap their full height in place, then it should stay out of the game. It's just like Yoshida said in the same interview - it's pointless to add swimming if you can't do anything with it but cross a random pond or swim 10 yards out on the coast.

[Alerion]

Jumping looks stupid. The only obstacle anyone would probably even think of jumping to clear would be a gap with a massive fall (or maybe a moving obstacle like a jump rope). Jumping in robes is difficult, while jumping in full plate mail is all but impossible.

As mentioned, most (practically all) MMOs that have a jump button don't even use it for anything. It basically exists entirely because players are used to pressing it and having their character not feel "stuck" against all logic. I'd much rather see a kind of contextual climbing, where our characters would take a bigger, slower step against some rocky terrain, or use their hands to climb up a small hill or cliff. You could even jump a couple feet up to reach for a ledge to pull yourself up onto. All logical actions that would at least be somewhat plausible, instead of jumping five feet in the air while wearing 150 pounds of steel to accomplish nothing.

Now, if there were some more reasons to jump, that would also be somewhat OK, making the game more action-based in some ways. If they actually did add areas with floating platforms or gaps that needed to be traversed by jumping, or bosses like some in WoW currently where jumping is one of the things you actually need to do, or perhaps if it can help shake off a status ailment like being caught on fire, then it might be worth adding. If it's just so people can "feel" like they do in other MMOs because their character model can leap their full height in place, then it should stay out of the game. It's just like Yoshida said in the same interview - it's pointless to add swimming if you can't do anything with it but cross a random pond or swim 10 yards out on the coast.

First off, your opinion of what "looks stupid" isn't excuse enough to not implement it. Secondly not everyone roleplays to the extent you apparently do. Third, you seem to have missed the point of my post. Lastly your "practically all" statement means little due to the highly successful WoW proving it functional in many different settings.

If you want to be stuck to the ground and walk into non-existent walls, FFXI still has it's servers up. I want a game that understands and pushes through genre standards, not mind numbingly walks backwards.

[Tsukino]

First off, your opinion of what "looks stupid" isn't excuse enough to not implement it. Secondly not everyone roleplays to the extent you apparently do. Third, you seem to have missed the point of my post. Lastly your "practically all" statement means little due to the highly successful WoW proving it functional in many different settings.

If you want to be stuck to the ground and walk into non-existent walls, FFXI still has it's servers up. I want a game that understands and pushes through genre standards, not mind numbingly walks backwards.

You asked why people would not want jumping. I gave three reasons, four if you count the possibility of it only being an animation. I don't ever "role play," I was just giving logical reasons why people shouldn't be given the ability to freely jump straight in the air and saying it would be better for the game aesthetically if they performed more logical actions like climbing or stepping up. Then I went on to agree that if it does do something useful (preferably multiple things), it would be fine.

As for the "point of [your] post," it seems to largely be that "everyone else is doing it so therefore it's more modern and FFXIV should do it too." Well here's some news for you - Donkey Kong had jumping. It's not a modern feature, it's a design choice. There are many games still being made today that do not have a jump button because jumping is not a necessary element of gameplay and levels are designed to match whatever they've created. RPGs are among the most common examples, including the entire Final Fantasy series, although there are even some sandbox games that have eliminated it as a single function (Assassin's Creed comes to mind). It's not just "FFXI didn't have it."

You seem to think there's no reason not to add it, but that's really poor game design practice. Everything implemented into a game should have a purpose and a use for gameplay. Again, if they want to add obstacles/bosses/whatever that require it, then great, they should definitely put it in. I'd love to have an area comprised entirely of rocks suspended in midair where you have to jump from platform to platform to get places or to evade earthbound enemies. I'd not love to have the team waste their time adding it and then continually making adjustments to the area design to prevent jump-created bugs or players getting where they're not supposed to just so some people can jump around like idiots. If they go to the trouble of adding and adjusting for it, then it needs to have a point.

[Alerion]

As for the "point of [your] post," it seems to largely be that "everyone else is doing it so therefore it's more modern and FFXIV should do it too." Well here's some news for you - Donkey Kong had jumping. It's not a modern feature, it's a design choice. There are many games still being made today that do not have a jump button because jumping is not a necessary element of gameplay and levels are designed to match whatever they've created. RPGs are among the most common examples, including the entire Final Fantasy series, although there are even some sandbox games that have eliminated it as a single function (Assassin's Creed comes to mind). It's not just "FFXI didn't have it."

You seem to think there's no reason not to add it, but that's really poor game design practice.

See, the point was missed. My point was always that it would loosen up the world to produce a much more fluid game. As I mentioned being stuck to the ground and having invisible walls is a dated idea. There's a reason "everyone else is doing it". It's simply good game design. We've been shown more and better and, like it or not, it has changed the genre.

You fail to recognize that jumping, in itself is it's own purpose. The feeling of free motion in any direction is incredibly appealing. You may not feel this way, but obviously quite a few do. Sure, things to jump on, through, over and across are necessities and Yoshida likely already knows that, based on his desire to add it.

So yes I do feel there's no reason not to add it, because being able to move my character is it's own reward.