Gods and Jobs

[Kinseykinz]

No, no, no. You'll have all your CNJ abilities, because you'll be CNJ, still. However, we're getting class revisions on 1.20, so we might not even KEEP those Cure spells. But, you're basically going to be CNJ/BLM or CNJ/WHM, whatever the case. You WILL, however, be limited to your class spells, according to Yoshi's Massively interview.

Where was this said in an interview....I only ask because I don't remember seeing/reading it.

[Answa]

Where was this said in an interview....I only ask because I don't remember seeing/reading it.

Massively: Will the jobs that are previewed going to be linked to specific classes, or will they be somewhat more flexible?

Naoki Yoshida: To answer that question, we're just going to go into a little bit of an explanation of this job system. Let's say you're looking to become a Paladin and unlock the job. What we're planning is that you can get your Gladiator to level 30 and you also get your Marauder to level 15 -- and please note that these numbers are not set in stone. When both conditions have been met, you can unlock a quest, which you can accept to unlock the Paladin job.

Once that class is unlocked, you will earn a job stone (again, not necessarily the final name). When you equip that, you can change your class into the Paladin job. Beyond the level 30 quest through which you get the job stone, there will also be quests at, say, levels 35, 40, 45, and 50 -- just as an example -- that deliver you the story of the Paladin job.

The level of the jobs will always be connected with the base class, so by earning experience as a Gladiator, you will make your Paladin stronger, and any experience earned as a Paladin will go toward your Gladiator experience. There's no necessity to go and raise your Paladin separately from your Gladiator. However, there will be job-specific weapons and armor, and to unlock these, you'll need to do the quests after unlocking the jobs. Similarly, weaponskills and abilities won't be earned through levels but by doing those quests. Experience is how you improve your classes, but the quest chains are how you improve your jobs.

Obviously, the question is what's different between a class and a job. After discussing with the battle team how we wanted to do this, we decided that for light parties and casual play, we wanted players using the class system where you can freely mix and match abilities to make an all-around type of character. Jobs we want to make more specialized, like you see in a lot of other MMOs, such as where the Paladin would be designed as a tank. They have special abilities to defend other party members, and while attack power might be lower, they'll have abilities that will enhance defense and allow them to play a certain role in their party.

Of course, during this job system, to make sure that the job is specialized, there won't be as much freedom in using abilities of other classes. Players will be able to play a specific role, and with that they'll be able to know their roles in high-end battles that require more tactics and a more specific type of playstyle, rather than solo battles, which are more open and where we'd rather have players be using the class system to meet a more flexible style.

The best way of thinking about it is probably two different modes of character fighting style depending on what type of content you'll be playing.

Source.

/10 char

[Kinseykinz]

Okay, but it doesn't explicitly say that you will be able to use all the class abilities that unlock that specific job...nor does it say you won't be able to use abilities learned from other classes...it just says jobs=limited use of abilities from classes.

This actually supports my theory more that any class ability that says 'required' can in fact, only be used by that class, even if it is the class that 'opens' the related job. So if CNJ opens BLM it would mean if you have CNJ weapon equipped you can cast Rebirth but if you hae BLM weapon equipped you could not as it is a 'CNJ required' spell.

I'm not really saying you're wrong, you could be totally right....but I could be correct as well. Honestly, until they change the spells/abilities around for the pre-jobs patch and until we get the jobs, we won't know for sure how it will all play out.

[Mihana]

I don't know. The more I think about it, the more CNJ/BLM, THM/WHM makes sense.

Thaumaturge lore deals with the balance of life and death. Even the god they idolize, Nald'thal, is a representation of balance.

Conjurer's lore is more focused on harmony with nature and harnessing the elements.

I really think they're going to give THM curative and DoT spells like poison and bio. The give CNJ the nukes and associated DoTs like rasp and such.

I strongly agree with this... Here's what I'm seeing probably happening:

Conjurer being a servant of the elementals (Do the CNJ storyline, it pretty much states that the Stillglade Fane Conjurers serve the elementals.) will likely be able to "ascend" to a more powerful medium, that allowing them to have greater command over the elements and truly serve the will of the forest. The trade off with this is they lose much of their abilities in curative magics, possibly picking up variants of the enfeebling magics that Thaumaturge typically gets.

Thaumaturges worship the teachings of Nald and Thal. To "improve" your connection with the two gods you can dedicate your life do the bidding of Nald'thal through the use of your magic. As a White Mage you'd have a greater control over life (Possibly a tie-in somewhere regarding the forbidden arts known in Thaumaturgy) and death but lose much of your damage and enfeebling spells in favor of gaining some of the abilities a Conjurer knows but in a different form perhaps.

This is what I likely see happening. In short if you want to play a hybrid class, a bit closer to supportive magic, you have Conjurer. If you want a hybrid but a bit closer to nuking and enfeebling, Thaumaturge. By taking on Black Mage as Conjurer forgo your supportive capabilities but can now nuke and use enfeebling magics far greater than any Thaumaturge can. By taking on White Mage as Thaumaturge you can't nuke anymore (Or at least anywhere as effective) but can use powerful restorative magics setting you into the role of a healer.

Pretty much a THM turned WHM can out-heal a Conjurer who'll become like a secondary healer or the equivalent of a RDM with WHM subbed in FFXI. CNJ turned BLM will out-nuke a regular Thaumaturge who'll really be mostly used for enfeebling and basic nuking. Think like a RDM maybe, with BLM subbed. And before anyone gets on me for comparing the game to FFXI here, I'm just noting those two for an easier sense of understanding of how the jobs will probably become. There might be better comparisons out there, but it's sort of how I see it basically.

[ellohwell]

Eventually they are going to give each class multiple jobs, so I dont see why they dont make a start now by making THM and CON both have access to either BLM and WHM.

[grandm]

Eventually they are going to give each class multiple jobs, so I dont see why they dont make a start now by making THM and CON both have access to either BLM and WHM.

if they gave CON and THM both black and white. then you would lose identity of both. a job should be individual and have its own identity. with is idea of given black and whith to both. there would just as much of an argument for axing one of them just get rid of THM cuz there is no need for it if CON does the exact same job. or get rid of CON for the same reason

[Dreamer]

if they gave CON and THM both black and white. then you would lose identity of both. a job should be individual and have its own identity. with is idea of given black and whith to both. there would just as much of an argument for axing one of them just get rid of THM cuz there is no need for it if CON does the exact same job. or get rid of CON for the same reason

What class unlocks them has no bearing whatsoever on the identity of the job.

[Wynn]

What class unlocks them has no bearing whatsoever on the identity of the class.

In my opinion, it does when the xp you gain on it goes toward one class or the other. They are inextricably linked.

[Esk]

My take on it

Twelve = New Gods (Islam/Christianity) - Lots of people believe cos they are newer and more well known at present and have better PR people lol.

Primals = Old Gods (Pagan(not going to pick a specific)/Hinduism) - Still known but has a smaller following.
More Brutal and simplistic representing more natural, elemental and primal(fear/love ext) things.

Bugger is I want to worship the Old Gods, but they could easily be that the Twelve are just re branded and twisted old gods though (i doubt this doesn't really fit but a thought anyway).
Lost of options atm I think.

[Wynn]

My take on it

Twelve = New Gods (Islam/Christianity) - Lots of people believe cos they are newer and more well known at present and have better PR people lol.

Primals = Old Gods (Pagan(not going to pick a specific)/Hinduism) - Still known but has a smaller following.
More Brutal and simplistic representing more natural, elemental and primal(fear/love ext) things.

Bugger is I want to worship the Old Gods, but they could easily be that the Twelve are just re branded and twisted old gods though (i doubt this doesn't really fit but a thought anyway).
Lost of options atm I think.

Maybe the twelve are really primals and we just don't know it yet. Or maybe elder primals like Odin.