So, apparently, we're getting MORE HP for the SAME dps...

[HoodRat]

Is this game's meta this obsessive with damage? Even when the damage isn't/won't be necessary, it's this big of a deal?

When the quality of people using df is so poor that highly geared (209/210) dps classes do less dps than tanks under 200 and when, on rare occasions, a tank in all strength accessories could literally have more dps than the healer and both dps classes combined, I'd say it is a big deal. That's why I no longer queue solo.

[Aldyet]

I feel this change was completely unnecessary and only exists to please the healers/filter out tanks who cant play the game properly. Of course the meta has only been like this since late scob, but that's far from the point. I enjoyed playing risky in alexander savage and optimizing my mitigation cooldowns so I could tank in my offensive stance as long as possible to maximize my dps output. Hell, I pretty much had to do this in A3S during the first few weeks with pentamelded accessories. But that's gone now since we will just be brainless meatshields with nerfed dps who will be barely doing more dps than a SCH, and that's only if you're a WAR. I would not mind as much if VIT gear was not littered with parry, but SE cant be bothered to do something about this useless stat.

(Some people say swap out parry pieces with str gear, but I have not looked into how viable that is yet.)

[KingFrost]

When the quality of people using df is so poor that highly geared (209/210) dps classes do less dps than tanks under 200 and when, on rare occasions, a tank in all strength accessories could literally have more dps than the healer and both dps classes combined, I\\'d say it is a big deal. That\\'s why I no longer queue solo.

Well, yeah. But you can make an argument for needing better defense as a DPS because DF tanks and heals can be trash. With that said though, I understand how it can help, but duty finder will always be duty finder, no matter the lvl, ilvl or class.

I still don\\'t see the "nerf" as something that will matter or ultimately change anything. Your numbers aren\\'t as big, but that doesn\\'t mean they A) Don\\'t matter, or B) Make skill, knowledge, practice and effort matter any less.

What, because the ceiling is lower, that means you may as well give up? Because no, you won\\'t and/or shouldn\\'t. If your posting on this forum, that automatically disqualifies that notion for you and most anyone else here.

Despite all that, I do think the change was superfluous. As I said, it doesn\\'t change much of anything. If PLD DPS was getting a buff, and both PLD and DRK had sooome TP issues resolved, then there tank disparity would have been eased. Especially if the DPD checks weren\\'t going to be nuts anymore.

But hey, day one of the changes, right?

[Geologo]

I understand both of the part in this discussion but in my opinion SE made a mistake.

I'm not a Tank, or it is not my main I just use it in old content or dungeon,
but when I play the tank I usually prefere the WAR, his DPS capacity is something that make his role very interesting and when in the 3.0 SE implemented the Deliverance mechanic they seemed to point out that the WAR meta is very close to the DPSs.

When you give a boost to a class and then nerf it, people will obviously even because this will impact on the thing that made that role fascinating.
This won't mean that who said "you are a tank, not a DPS" are totally wrong but to me they should have implemented this feature differently, something like:

If you use STR jewels you will do the same damage of 3.1,
If you use VIT jewels you will do an average damage between 3.1 full VIT and full STR.

So the gap won't be so heavy and in some situation people would sacrifice some DPS to go VIT, but leaving the opportunity to customize a little your role.

Actually tanks was the only class with a little customization thanks to STR/VIT decision, this flattern it a lot (in my opinion).

[Gameplayzero]

deeps

see my problem isn't so much that I want more deeps. Its the issue of the game mainly giving fluff damage with single target hits and "some" auto attacks in normal content (and beyond) doing a lot of damage. Between the strong hits you really aren't taking too much damage in normal content. At least to me its rather boring during that fluff and the only way to mitigate that (pun intended) was to focus on dps. Standing around and "over tanking" is not fun and most good healers will dps regardless if your health is hardly dropping. The reward before this patch was very much worth it for dark and warriors doing a LOT of damage while trying to survive. Doing old content now isn't as satisfying because of the nerf when realistically you are going to be in dps stance intelligently in this patch and last patch if you are overgeared and are a good player. HP bloat encourages that even further with older content. Issue is that its less rewarding now.

[Gameplayzero]

(sorry for double post, but i reached word limit)


There was also a higher risk to the strength meta so that definitely made it more fun. Finding the comfort zone between life and death made it very fun to focus on dps as long as the healers were competent/cool enough to let you do so. Hell even dark knight feels like its SUPPOSED to dps. Especially with blood weapon to conserve mp/tp and all of its off global cooldowns. Pretty much a good amount of new skills for tanks this patch was designed with dps in mind. Hence the "meta".


TL;DR? Tank busters and doing lots of constant damage is, in my opinion, the only way to make things exciting again. What i'm saying is that Square hopefully stays true to their word about tanks taking more damage this time around. If tanks are taking a lot of damage then not only is tanking reinforced, but the high risk/high reward will return if the damage is great enough. Yes we still do a decent amount of damage and nothing is stopping us from dpsing, but its still pretty jarring losing 20% of our damage unexpectedly like this. I'm crying just a bit because R.I.P. fell cleave, but I understand the meta hasn't even developed fully and don't know what i'm dealing with.

[Lemuel81]

No, you're misunderstanding. All 3 jobs lost 15-25% of their damage. Now they do that same 15-25% lower damage whether you're in VIT or STR.

Yup and pretty much screwed warriors self healing as well!