[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

[Dualblade]

Do you know how much time had passed between the official pardon and the current 3.2 events?

Undeterminned since we are probably still in a "time bubble" (IE its still been 5 years since the Calamity).

[CyrilLucifer]

It's hard to tell. I actually do get the feeling that more time is passing between events in 3.X than 2.X, though that may just be because of the narrative frame being more effective. 3.0 had a few time skips, which you tell via KI descriptions and we have an entire mural being made for 3.2; something that large isn't done in a week.

And within 3.2 itself, we have a grand melee. Something that large isn't prepared overnight, either, since it's a non-emergency political event with leaders present. Honestly, I'd give that at least a month, but this is fantasy, so we can shorten that to another week or two, I guess?

[Dualblade]

It's hard to tell. I actually do get the feeling that more time is passing between events in 3.X than 2.X, though that may just be because of the narrative frame being more effective. 3.0 had a few time skips, which you tell via KI descriptions and we have an entire mural being made for 3.2; something that large isn't done in a week.

And within 3.2 itself, we have a grand melee. Something that large isn't prepared overnight, either, since it's a non-emergency political event with leaders present. Honestly, I'd give that at least a month, but this is fantasy, so we can shorten that to another week or two, I guess?

Personally I'd go with a couple months, four at max. A part of me still wants to think the 2.x series as a whole took a year.

[Morningstar1337]

Edit:
Changing the subject pretty rapidly, but with the official lyrics to Alexander's battle theme out from the OST, I'm pretty certain Alex is capable of Tempering.

Fragments in one direction
Celestial noise detected
Delirium unsuspected
Static tuned in to reason
Time in the aether deepens
Transmissions blink uncompleted

It sounds a lot like our Echo is preventing our tempering.

Mide, what are you even doing? Better yet, WoL, what are you even doing, bringing Mide in there?

That brings some Fridge Horror into A8. Two words: Tempered. CHILDREN.

Spekaing of tempered goblin kids, Roundrox is stuck in Alexander, unconscious and being used to for the enigma codex. This could only end in tragedy, I can just tell

Oh and regarding Mide, didn't she already summon Alex before?

[CyrilLucifer]

Oh goodness.

That brings new insight to those cheering Gobbie children in the A8 theme.

And they cheer right before the transition to the tempering lines.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Finished A8 last night! Some thoughts on that, and Sephirot's little sidestory.

On Midas
Time shenanigans! I can dig it! Then again, I really like the Alexander plot as a whole; sure, it lacks the sheer gravitas of Coil, but the threat is well-established even if the tone is more light-hearted.

That said, it's not without its plot holes. Like...what was the purpose of Mide's fake-out with the Codex piece? Obviously the Illuminati was going to figure it out eventually, and all it ended up doing was getting Roundrox captured. I have some other more specific questions related to the Alex plot, but I figured I'd find/make a separate thread for that.

On Sephirot
Always happy to see our friendly Imperial antagonists get some more limelight. I kind of wish we could have seen these thralls that were in stasis, to give us an idea of this Meracydian tree race, but oh well. The lyrics to the Phase 2 song are also quite a bit more intense than we're used to, which will certainly provide for some interesting dissection.

Some nice interactions with our little masked friend, too. I'm a bit curious as to why people are scrapping the Unulkalhai-as-Elidibus theory after this, though; I think it's about as likely as anything else, but I didn't catch anything that actively contradicted or disproved it. Maybe I just missed it though.

Also, thinking on a few other MSQ things:

I think I'd have been warmer towards the AntiTower if they had just asked Matoya about a potential solution to accessing the Aetherial Sea, and then she had revealed the existence of the Tower, instead of learning about it then going to Matoya and then her revealing it. I'm not 100% sure why, but I was really comfortable with that hypothetical, maybe because it was one coincidence rather than 2 or 3.

Also, I really think the dev team needs to start mentioning the major setpieces of its patches in the patch before, since the pace they've set for themselves doesn't allow for any buildup at all in the patch itself. Case in point: I actually have no problem with the timeframe of the peace conference/construction of the mural, but the Grand Melee, as much as I enjoyed doing it, required more suspension of disbelief. This is because the conference was part of 3.1's story, the mural goes hand-in-hand with it, and we had the time span between patches that we can infer Aymeric used to prepare for it. If the Grand Melee had been an idea that came up in 3.1, the preparations might not have seemed so one-and done. It would have also felt more natural to introduce the Grand Melee in this way; the issue of a divided, disillusioned populace did not come with the Bar Maiden's Speech, and while the Melee works well as a way of countering that, it might have made more sense for it to be something that was already happening rather than something hastily organized after the fact.

[CyrilLucifer]

I agree, Cutest Ascian could still be Elidibus, there really isn't anything to disprove it. I've just always thought he was a Lesser Ascian servant to Elidibus. He's still Totally-not-Elidibus-or-his-servant though, whenever he's not Cutest Ascian.

I think people are looking at the scene with Krile in Azys Lla. She made a lot of assumptions that appeared to make Unukalhai uncomfortable. That makes people assume she's right, but immediately drawing that conclusion discounts Unukalhai being uncomfortable for completely different reasons like, say, instead of wanting to challenge the WoL, he expects he will have to and rather than to test his strength it's a test of his faith.

[Brannigan]

In 3.2 Minfydaelyn tells us about the cosmos and it seems there are/were a number of alternate planes, possibly with alternate Hydaelyns (the planet anyway) and Zodiarks (moons). Ascians want to tear down the barriers between the planes (they like tearing down barriers in general) and resurrect Zodiark. Every time a calamity happens, the barriers get weaker.

Based on what they tell I think this stuff is probably true:

1) We're in the original world (The Source).
2) Calamities combine one of the alternate planes with ours, possibly(?) destroying that plane in the process. Ascians call this a Rejoining.
3) The massive changes to Eorzea's landscape 1.0->2.0 aren't from Bahamut's aether or whatever, but are instead from the Rejoining that took place.
4) The Warriors of Darkness are survivors from the plane that was involved in the latest Rejoining. They're either being manipulated by the Ascians or our world's/Hydaelyn's existence is a threat to theirs.

A big hole here is why do the Ascians care? Zodiark and Hydaelyn were supposedly split apart in an age before life, so why would Ascians be motivated to help him at all? Assuming they're not just Saturday morning cartoon villains or mindless thralls/zealots, Zodiark has to have some redeeming features or Hydaelyn has to present some threat to them. What do they get out of it if Zodiark wins? Maybe with their power to break down the barriers between souls, Ascians were once all just mixed up soul goop chilling out inside of Zodiark/Hydaelyn and the split gave them individuality (which sucks compared to a sweet hivemind). Are they just ascended echo users from different planes (I recall a piece of text saying Lahabrea or Elidibus or someone was from this world, implying the others are not) who discovered some devious plot by Hydaelyn?

Is there a piece of information I'm missing that destroys all of this? I try to pay attention to the MSQ but some details escape me and it's been unfolding over a long time. I know a lot of this has been discussed in the thread a bit.

[CyrilLucifer]

To be completely fair to the Ascians, the Echo is the ability to tear barriers between souls; every time you translate another language, such as when you understood Nabriales, you were resonating with their soul. The same goes with memories. So we do a lot of tearing too. It's not outside the realm of possibility that we could even use it in the same way the Ascians do, if we actually wanted to, given what we did to Thancred to confront Lahabrea.

I'm not sure if the 'originally a hivemind' is necessarily the case, but when I was but a wee Ascian fan, I once entertained the notion. Not so much anymore, because they do seem to revel in their independence. On that subject, I actually have a completely scientific interest in Ascian reproduction. Can they do it? Would it be asexual, like splitting their aether and somehow letting it develop on its own? . . .I have this same interest in voidsent reproduction, stop looking at me like that.

As for why they care - that's the big question and I think getting that answer will tell us everything. I mean, we can guess what Zodiark wants, but it would all be extrapolation based on the Ascians themselves, since Hydaelyn didn't tell us anything about His reasons. Unfortunately, they also send us mixed messages; Lahabrea and Elidibus basically tell us completely different things, and Nabriales is over there doing his own thing trying to bring about what He wants too.

And yes, Nabriales is the one who says Best and Second Best Ascians are "of this world," hence them not being bound by the same limitations as Nabriales is - namely, being unable to enter the Stones.
The SMN quest also gives us the possibility that Lesser Ascians might be ascended Echo users (but really doesn't tell us anything more than that; what a tease of a quest, but it was wonderful.)

You also get a like because you amused me. I know you're purposely poking fun at me with the hivemind bit and I am totally okay with that.

[Alice_89th]

That brings some Fridge Horror into A8. Two words: Tempered. CHILDREN.

Spekaing of tempered goblin kids, Roundrox is stuck in Alexander, unconscious and being used to for the enigma codex. This could only end in tragedy, I can just tell

Oh and regarding Mide, didn't she already summon Alex before?

She did. And it went horribly horribly wrong.