Thread: [spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

Originally Posted by Berethos

This, perhaps more than any other line, makes me think that most of the Ascians (basically all the black-robed crew) are actually as clueless as to what Zodiark's end goal and true motives are as we are with Hydaelyn's.

I absolutely agree. This has been brought up by multiple people; it really does seem that the darker-robed Ascians are not aware of Zodiark's true will. It's like, say, a soldier fighting for their country loyally, believing wholly in its purpose, but without an idea of the true intentions of the politicians in charge. Hence Elidibus calling Lahabrea a Warrior; he is one who fights, not one whose focus is on diplomacy (very much like our WoL).

What's most interesting in that line for me is how it actually shows changes in Lahabrea. Forgive the tangent on Best Ascian, hiding it for those who don't want to see an analysis.

What brought that statement from Elidibus on was Minfilia mentioning that Lahabrea did not think terribly highly of the Echo - Elidibus obviously does think somewhat highly of it.

But then when you compare Lahabrea's actions throughout 2.X and 3.0 and then compare Elidibus' line of "Lahabrea may yet learn from his mistakes" - he actually does learn. I mean, I'm fond of calling Laha an idiot and brash, but it's really just me being all tsuntsun. It's clear that Lahabrea really did gain some respect for the power of mortals wielding the Echo, because he started using it to his advantage. Lahabrea did learn from his mistakes and is willing to change his stance. He's not closed-minded at all, but this he's willing to alter his strategy and take advantage of anything he sees fit - including the strength of the mortals (Ysayle) he despises.

Lahabrea is the best.

As for Cutest Ascian...of all the things he said, the one about wishing he had the strength for something has me the most curious. What did he fail to do, and how does that impact what he's doing now? I really hope we get an answer to that.

Well, I fall into the camp that Echo users can ascend into Lesser Ascians under the right circumstances, so my thoughts are obviously biased and highly steeped in crack.

Working on the assumption he's a Lesser Ascian and not Elidibus (I'm sure someone who believes he is Elidibus can find a theory as well!), the most interesting thing to note is that Unukalhai has a name. This doesn't seem like much, but none of Lahabrea's servants are named, they're titled. What that implies can only be called baseless crackpot and I'm not here to spout my crackpot at you unless you want to hear it, but I have seen others throw the idea around that some Lesser Ascians may be former Warriors of Light from their respective worlds.

So, Unukalhai could have failed to protect his world. Or even our world against Bahamut, as a Warrior from Carteneau.

While I'm not quite sure I would go that far, that's a bit of a stretch to make given the information we have in my opinion, I'm of the belief that Lesser Ascians need to die to become Lesser Ascians, so he may have had some purpose and goal before he was changed and was required to give up his original identity.

I think we can all agree he's not really a child at all. It's just his host, hence him slipping up and calling Krile small.

Originally Posted by Draxis_Fallspear

Wondering if anyone else has thought this. But after looking at Unukalhai's boots, they remind me alot of Alphinaud's. Which got me thinking....

Could Unukalhai be Allisaie in disguise? It would explain the history with the Garleans. Alot of Krile's assessment of Unukalhai also fits with this statement, as well as the fact that Lousoix's theme is playing during the scene. It would also explain Allisaie's accidental spying on Urianger and Elidibus at the end of 3.1...

Anyhow, just curious to see if this is a road that others might have considered as well.

Uh, well, no. He just has plain, unadorned boots. But if you're all about that, you're going to need to explain why Unukalhai's name has him directly related to Elidibus as the alpha serpentis. And why he can withstand the tempering - by his own words (and actions, considering he was with Krile in range). Ali doesn't have the Echo as far as we know.

I actually feel like SephEx was blatant like that precisely to clear up some misgivings.

But still, Ravana Ex? Bismarck Ex? Spoken need to be attuned to teleport somewhere. The only way you can attune to those fights and enter the arena through the use of those ancient relic - relics which are destroyed after you use them.

And ARF? That's a completely different mess of trying to consider more than one person entering. To justify that one you need to break the laws of the in-game universe or twist your mind around some pretty weird situations.

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

And ARF? That's a completely different mess of trying to consider more than one person entering.

You used the Echo to split each member of your 4-man party in two when you realized the bigger gun was necessary.

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

But still, Ravana Ex? Bismarck Ex? Spoken need to be attuned to teleport somewhere. The only way you can attune to those fights and enter the arena through the use of those ancient relic - relics which are destroyed after you use them.

What? I remember an entirely different course of events; We smashed the relic against the aetherytes and then got some humorous dialog along the lines of "Nothing happens, so out of habit you just attune to the aetheryte". It actually makes me wonder what was up with those relics, because they seemingly did nothing... Taking a look at the journal;

To prevent the awakening of the Warring Triad, Bismarck must be cast down once more, and Unukalhai declares that you shall slay him using the same methods as before. The boy then furnishes you with a large gemstone and bids you show it to Chief Sonu of the Zundu, in case he is feeling reluctant to give you all that you require.

Chief Sonu believes the gemstone in your possession is a relic of great power. If smashed against a Vundu aetheryte nestled in the Whale's Crown, it will render Bismark vulnerable... Yet, upon further reflection, you recall no mention of this white whale's newfound invulnerability prior to this. That said, if the primal does have some form of protection, it will need to be circumvented before he can be defeated. Inform Cid of your new task.

Cid seems poised to explain in detail how Chief Sonu's request makes no sense whatsoever. However, he instead hazards that it might bring you good luck.

With all your might, you smash the gemstone against the aetheryte...and nothing much happens. Out of habit, you attune with the aetheryte..and again, nothing much happens. If your actions had any meaning, it remains to be seen. In any case, Cid is waiting.

Unukalhai bids you return to Thok ast Thok, where the resurgent Lord of the Hive builds his strength in eager anticipation. Doubtful that the act of surrendering will fool the Gnath a second time, the boy presents you with a gemstone, the Burning Eye of Ravana, and sends you to speak with the elder of the Nonmind. Travel to Loth ast Vath, and consult with the Vath storyteller about a new path into Ravana's domain.

You speak with the Vath elder, and he tells you of an aetheryte found inside a sacred cave on the far side of the colony. He warns you, however, that the wards placed upon the crystalline structure will admit only the most worthy of warriors...whatever that might mean. Make your way to the Gynehive in Loth ast Gnath, and attune to the Gnathic aetheryte.

You smash the gemstone against the aetheryte...and nothing much happens. You then proceed to attune to the aetheryte without difficulty, the invisible wards seemingly satisfied by the sacrifice of Unukalhai's bauble. Prove yourself now a worthy challenger, an vanquish the unbridled Wrath of the Colony!

So first thing, none of this is what Unukalhai told us to do... Wonder if he'll be mad about that eventually... "Quick, we can only stop Regula van Kefkus with those relics I gave you!"

Secondly, we didn't need them to attune. The Vanu believed smashing theirs would weaken Bismarck, while the Vath simply believe we need to be worthy, if there truly were invisible wards preventing us from attuning (why the hell didn't we try attuning first?!) one would assume our friends could attune in the opening we provided by smashing the thing anyway (I certainly did that quest with friends right after Bismarck).

Given how much emphasis they put on these though... I really wonder if they'll have some deeper meaning later on... Perhaps it was just a joke to liven up the typical "Go attune for the fight!", similar to Tidus and Levibetus? Perhaps Unukalhai merely gave them to us to have the tribes help us, perhaps we were meant to hold onto them to absorb some of Bismarck/Ravana's power after slaying them?

Anyway... On the topic of having friends in fights... I think we tend to have friends along for the ride with this stuff... They're not shown in cutscenes for practicalities sake, but lore wise I'm incline to think we're the leader of our own Free Company and when we get a quest, our members are standing right besides us ready to help. Alternatively the Duty Finder takes a leaf from Bravely Default (speaking of, can Bravely Third come out on a console with a battery life that doesn't make me hate everything? I want to keep playing Bravely Second T_T) and our Echo power just grants us the ability to call upon alternate reality Warriors of Light to help us... With them leaning more and more towards adding a "You and your friends did it!" narrative with fights (Steps of Faith was a prime example), I'm incline to think we're never solo in these things. Either we just have friends around all the time, or the Echo did it, probably a mix of the two. It simply isn't practical for cutscenes to cover this sort of thing though, they could include party members in cutscenes and alter dialog based on them being there, but I'd rather they work on something more meaningful (like taking Fencer and Wizard from Bravely Second and melding them together into a glorious Red Mage Job for 2.0, yes I want it that early...).

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

And ARF? That's a completely different mess of trying to consider more than one person entering. To justify that one you need to break the laws of the in-game universe or twist your mind around some pretty weird situations.

Remember that Heavensward artwork with the group riding Midgardsormr? Yeah, I'm going with that. We had some friends with us in the lead up to Tiamat (perhaps they kept some Garleans off our backs during the random solo instance with Regula that only existed to have him run off like Kefka, rather than have him question what the flip just happened to his shiny new warship... Why did he not care that Ysayle summoned Shiva, again?) and then we all just jumped on Middy to rush to Flagship... Perhaps one party went off a different direction when exploring the place, and we met back up when Thordan showed up to explain the 4 man into 8 man shift (in reality they nerfed ARF from Praetorium level "Why are our raids so bad when this is so good?" awesomeness into a cheap dungeon and epic Trial). How they got out is another matter... Teleporting is a thing though, we even directly see Derplander using it, so I'd say our friends just hit Return after we delivered our coup de gravy to Thordan, because they're merely Adventurer's, just there for the non-existent loot, while we're the Warrior of Light, who needs to deal with the aftermath in cutscenes. Echo hacks would better explain how we're all Warriors of Light, of course, but unless we get a direct mention of Bravely Default level parallel world hacks, I'm leaning much more heavily towards "My friends are farming dragonskins while I'm in a cutscene with Tiamat". We could simply break down the barriers that divide worlds in that small pocket (why we can't leave the area, perhaps?) to find 3~7 other versions of "us" in order to overcome extreme odds... Certainly fun to theorize either way, but either way I'm fairly certain we're not alone (yes I put that in italics just to reference FFIX, and yes I added this just to remind people that FFIX is the best) in any instances...