If You Were A Class/Job Designer...

[RecklessLion]

Also DRK for blood price for the duration of whIle it's activated for everytime they receive damage they receive a damage reduction by 1% until blood price is over.

[Syzygian]

@J'ioh: If pld and drk get slash debuff, Monk is basically locked out of content in favor of drg/nin because nin's big dps loss (dancing edge applications), is mitigated.

Honestly I feel like its time for them to just shit-can Mantra and DK and buff MNKs personal DPS even higher. Like 2000 dummy DPS at i215 no buffs/party/food/pots.

[Violette]

Honestly I feel like its time for them to just shit-can Mantra and DK and buff MNKs personal DPS even higher. Like 2000 dummy DPS at i215 no buffs/party/food/pots.

Dragoon got too much ground with all their new toys. Putting them back in their place solidly in second!

But DRG also has synergy with a ROLE you always bring, while NIN kind of relies on war's and pld need a monk to make up for lost int/dps.

Need to slap down war-nin synergy a bit more and bring up monks ability to burst (small reduction of cd of PB would do it).

Also Mantra is good now, with all the aoe damage coming out the ability to buff healing in an aoe is strong.

#monkutility.

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly I feel like its time for them to just shit-can Mantra and DK and buff MNKs personal DPS even higher. Like 2000 dummy DPS at i215 no buffs/party/food/pots.

^

I'm still not sure how I feel about the Demolish buff with no reduction to TP costs. It's kind of like being told "if you don't want to use up Goad, you're going to have to combat-Meditate for Purification TP". Which I'd be fine with (heck, even enjoy, as I pretty well know already where I can and can't do so without dps loss) if it had just been a bit more of a dps bonus, or if their support were more useful. It can be really nice, sometimes, but forced spreads too early or closely before AoE damage can really sap its potential, as can the mere fact that we're not that used to making the most out of it (or often Cure III). If it had been 8% by default, worth rotating through non-Monk DPS as well, and either 24% or 16% with a much reduced cooldown on Monk itself, then it'd be something wholly serious almost all the time.

Without that though, Mantra's on just too long a CD and made mediocre as a counter too many mechanics to be worth the loss of TA for a lesser raid contribution, especially with a DRK in the mix to negate the Int Down value of DK. By 33% crit chance the benefit of a DKB is far less than that of a Warrior SEing for a NIN (compounded further by how DE messes with certain points in NIN's rotation and that Monk has IR to hugely boost crit chance with 25% uptime); even if Delirium additionally placed Blunt resist down, it'd take some serious personal DPS for a Monk to contribute as much as a Ninja, especially without said Ninja (or a DRG) buffing it.

.....I guess, in the end, what it really comes down to is just how damn strong NIN-WAR synergy is, how no other tank has this, and yet at the same time I don't want them all to just have Slashing Resist Down debuffs either.

[eagledorf]

@J'ioh: If pld and drk get slash debuff, Monk is basically locked out of content in favor of drg/nin because nin's big dps loss (dancing edge applications), is mitigated.

I don't see that this is a valid point. Every raid group already has the Slashing debuff anyway. Show me a cutting edge clear that doesn't have a WAR. It's already the case that in raid contents, the only reason NIN even have it on their hotbar is for when they have to miss a positional. If anything, it's an argument for giving it to the other two tanks to ensure that WAR doesn't stay mandatory just for NINs to reach their full DPS potential.

Actually, MNK are clearing, but they're a DRG replacement, not a NIN one. The TP, hate, and burst support from NIN is a different beast than the pure DPS that DRG and MNK each bring. MNK probably still needs a small DPS increase (hard to judge still) and a hate dump (why is it the highest personal DPS job in the game is the only job that doesn't have an enmity management skill? Seriously, who thinks these things up?), but you're suggesting they shouldn't fix the tank jobs because the DPS jobs are also broken? Seriously? How has SE managed to convince you that inaction is justified by even more inaction?

[Shurrikhan]

@J'ioh: If pld and drk get slash debuff, Monk is basically locked out of content in favor of drg/nin because nin's big dps loss (dancing edge applications), is mitigated.

I don't see that this is a valid point. Every raid group already has the Slashing debuff anyway. Show me a cutting edge clear that doesn't have a WAR. It's already the case that in raid contents, the only reason NIN even have it on their hotbar is for when they have to miss a positional. If anything, it's an argument for giving it to the other two tanks to ensure that WAR doesn't stay mandatory just for NINs to reach their full DPS potential.

Actually, MNK are clearing, but they're a DRG replacement, not a NIN one. The TP, hate, and burst support from NIN is a different beast than the pure DPS that DRG and MNK each bring. MNK probably still needs a small DPS increase (hard to judge still) and a hate dump (why is it the highest personal DPS job in the game is the only job that doesn't have an enmity management skill? Seriously, who thinks these things up?), but you're suggesting they shouldn't fix the tank jobs because the DPS jobs are also broken? Seriously? How has SE managed to convince you that inaction is justified by even more inaction?

What you've quoted in no ways says that tank parity should remain broken, only that it might be worth considering other ways of bridging that gap.

[eagledorf]

Very well. How do you propose to bridge the gap in a way that is satisfactory for all levels of content without giving the debuff to PLD and DRK? It would be balanced for raiding if you gave it to just two, but that's outrageous to have only one tank not have self-reliant DPS and hate-generation. There is honestly no solution besides giving it to all three or taking it away from WAR.

I'm strongly opposed to taking it away from WAR because of the storm of re-balancing NIN that would follow. There are three tanks now and it's not acceptable for only one to have the ability to reach their full hate and DPS potential without the support of another job.

(Well, I mean it's conceivable to do it if you did like a massive overhaul of the tanks. Something extreme like making PLD damage and DRK damage magic or some other new damage type and increasing their DPS and hate so that the slashing debuff is neither necessary nor useful to them. That's just not realistic though unless they drop Dalamud again)

[Shurrikhan]

Very well. How do you propose to bridge the gap in a way that is satisfactory for all levels of content without giving the debuff to PLD and DRK? It would be balanced for raiding if you gave it to just two, but that's outrageous to have only one tank not have self-reliant DPS and hate-generation. There is honestly no solution besides giving it to all three or taking it away from WAR.

I'm strongly opposed to taking it away from WAR because of the storm of re-balancing NIN that would follow. There are three tanks now and it's not acceptable for only one to have the ability to reach their full hate and DPS potential without the support of another job.

(Well, I mean it's conceivable to do it if you did like a massive overhaul of the tanks. Something extreme like making PLD damage and DRK damage magic or some other new damage type and increasing their DPS and hate so that the slashing debuff is neither necessary nor useful to them. That's just not realistic though unless they drop Dalamud again)

To be honest the last bit is kind of what I would have hoped to have seen--certain DRK weaponskills becoming partially magic, Sword Oath bonus damage being magic and a fair portion of Shield Oath damage being blunt (via shields). Their base damage would then be increased faintly to compensate, such that they gain less when Storm's Eye is active (gaining instead from Foe), but still contribute the same amount when it's active, dealing more when it's not (effectively needing it less). Alternatively, they get more benefit out of Foe Requiem.

Now if I were outright given the option of dropping a small meteor / satellite prison, however, I probably wouldn't stop there, but I think that'd be a decent start ...as far as spit-balling ideas go...

To be honest, and I'm not saying this as a reason not to give all tanks slashing buff, but merely to ventilate a thorn that's been prodding me for some time, Warrior already gets quite a bit more out of Storm's Eye than the other tanks, simply because so little of the WAR arsenal is anything other than direct physical damage. PLD is more dependent on DoTs, the periodic portion of which goes unaffected, and DRK additionally upon bits of periodic magic (Dark Passenger, etc.) affected only by Foe / Bish-HC.

[Duelle]

I'm strongly opposed to taking it away from WAR because of the storm of re-balancing NIN that would follow.

This is not difficult to solve. Raise Dancing Edge's potency to 300, change the effect from "-Slashing Resistance" to "+NIN damage" and you got something to work with. This way the ability becomes a personal DPS gain for NIN, the NIN is encouraged to keep the effect active without sacrificing too much DPS and you can phase out attempts at forcing synergy through damage debuffs.

[Violette]

Honestly I feel like its time for them to just shit-can Mantra and DK and buff MNKs personal DPS even higher. Like 2000 dummy DPS at i215 no buffs/party/food/pots.

World first a7s clear done thanks to mantra and dragon kick utility.