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  1. #9
    Player
    Syzygian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    735
    Character
    Syzygia Coahcuhhar
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I'd actually dislike quite a few of these changes if done, or feel that their outputs would be better served through different means.

    PLD:
    • 2. Placing a TP restore on Shelltron further niches PLDs out of magic-only fights and into the MT role. You've mentioned disliking how much of DRK's utility is locked to MT, so why would you worsen the same for PLD? Why further make WAR the OT, and the kick the non-WARs into the MT-as-often-as-possible-war-cds-are-for-fell-cleave corner? See #6. Its just to give PLD a TP restore while tanking, and a different one while OTing. PLD OT would still be good and have a way to restore TP. It has little to do with utility, PLD can still Clemency/Cover/DV whether MT or OT with all of these changes. Perhaps the numbers are skewed, we'll say... 120 TP in SwO for TW, 40 TP for Sheltron in ShO. Maybe that'd be more balanced. Maybe TW could render magic parryable/blockable for the duration (not actually offering concrete mitigation but offering the chance, if paired with Sheltron/Bulwark? *shrug*)
    • 3. This would cut its potential per-event healing done in half. It takes less than 45s to regain the full mana cost as is, and far less when making use of Shelltron. We'd end up again having nothing to use our mana on (except for the oGCD oath changes in [4]). Fair enough, but I highly doubt any PLD is using Clemency literally every time they have the MP for it. If anything it being oGCD makes it a net-gain. Now it can spot heal itself or the party without shooting its DPS in the foot, or robbing itself of potential blocks/parries. If the recast+MP cost doesn't make sense I suppose we could increase the MP cost? So that a poorly timed Clemency could rob a PLD of the ability to stance dance or perhaps Stoneskin? Not sure that'll be a popular idea...
    • 4. With what, if any, recast timer? Given the change to Clemency, there's very, very little to keep this from being considerably stronger than Defiance/Deliverance when the 20% mitigation exceeds the value of +20% healing taken. Nevermind, you got rid of the delayed eHP increase, so given even value of healing and mitigation, the two swap systems are equally powerful. Will PLD's then also be at 10s recast? Yes, 10s. My previous version of this list had Grit/Oaths at 20-30s recasts with Defiance left untouched as far as the healing component outlined in the WAR section, perhaps that would seem more balanced to you?

    WAR:
    • 2. So we further make SE cost nothing for WARs in WAR/NIN combos? Well, not going to change anything in that regard, at least. /shrug. I'd like to at least see BB enmity increased by the 3.7% lost, though, as it's then even less desirable to use when the WAR needs both Storms. Long live OT WAR? It just doesn't make sense for BB to be their top DPS - meaning WAR doesn't need to sacrifice anything for enmity. The potency changes still keep the same net average potency across their rotation. I guess I'd also accept the reverse of this, where PLD/DRK potencies are changed so that their enmity combos are a net gain and their debuff combos are a net loss, but then... you'd have 3 tanks that never want to offer raid mitigation and are constantly disregarding enmity meters for the sake of personal DPS, instead of 1.
    • 3/4. Why? Just... why? Did WAR not have enough internal conflict among its mechanics that it needed more reason to waste its stacks? Overpower is much more intuitive to prep or waste combos for than any stack-generating ability. I'm not following. Wasting stacks? Also where in the nigh-flawless design of the WAR job is there mechanical conflict?
    • 5. This was the one bit that made stance-dancing interesting in itself for WAR... Why would you remove that? Just to buff it to Oath/Grit levels?If I'm putting Grit and Oaths off the GCD they're now instant 20% mitigation oGCD on demand, MP/recast providing. So Defiance needed a heal to keep it level with that. Also I'm not quite following you on what is inherently "interesting" about creating a 25% HP discrepancy whenever you turn Defiance on.

    DRK:
    • 1. Why not on the DA-DD as well? At that rate the value of the non-DA DD may well outweigh the DA form's. Because a common complaint is that DA and non-DA versions of things are too similar. This makes it so that DADD is still optimal for trash/dungeons, but regular DD is viable for (physical) TBs to an extent. This way they both do wholly different things but are equally useful in different instances. Another thing I'd consider is maybe have DD grant a second buff that is like a parry version of Sheltron - So you are guaranteed to parry the next attack and then have increased parry rate for the remainder of the buff. Its balanced with Sheltron b/c Sheltron has half the recast, restores MP (and TP in ShO), and block is more powerful for that one single hit than Parry.
    • 2. Free Souleater three times per minute? When you already take 6+ minutes to run out of TP? 4 times per minute. And you take 6+ minutes to run out with Grit off+Blood Weapon uptime. That's why I said "Grit only, DA only". Its strictly to give them a pinch of TP sustain while MTing with Grit on. Gritless/Blood Weapon DRK floors in 6.5 min. Grit DRK floors in 4.2 min. Lets not even talk about how long WAR takes to never run out of TP. This change is almost the exact same as WAR stack abilities costing no TP. You're expending MP here instead of stacks to use a GCD for no TP. And only in Grit. ****(After crunching some numbers, I realize this would be a bit "OP" (still not as crazy as WAR's Deliverance sustain though, not by a long shot). However, if Grit+DA SE TP cost was reduced to say, 30 TP, it would be in line with a Gritless BW DRK sustain (about 150~ TP consumed per minute))
    • 3. That'd be hugely more valuable than either Dancing Edge or Storm's Eye. Hugely. Only 10 potency wasted on its own application, as compared to 60 in applying Storm's Eye. PLD's lack of slashing debuff now sticks sorely, whereas it used to seem WAR-unique among tanks. And it's still an instant 575 DoT to boot...?
      No, its a 500 potency DoT. Salted Earth is 575. Not sure where you're getting the potency numbers (where is DRK (or WAR) losing 10/60 potency respectively?), as with these changes WAR loses no DPS in applying the slashing debuff at all. And with these changes, PLD and DRK comps would have a slashing debuff. Its win/win. In DRK/WAR comps, WAR would still use Eye, and NIN would still not use DE. So no change there at all, literally. The potency of the move that applies the slashing debuff doesn't make a difference unless it somehow changes DRK/WARs rotation, which in this case, it doesn't. But for PLD/DRK comps it would be a godsend. PLD not having a slashing debuff at this point is moot because its partner would always be bringing one for it, unless your other tank is also a PLD in which case... well. You got me there. Perhaps we could give them both a slashing debuff (attach one to Goring Blade or something) but make them only applicable out of tank stance. Again, rotation stays the same, and that way they'd both have a slashing debuff, in any comp, and in a DRK/PLD comp they'd rotate responsibility for maintaining it based on who is MTing/OTing at the time? Who knows.
    Feel free to add to/subtract from/edit my suggestions. I tried to be as even-handed as possible while also keeping things pretty minimal.
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    Last edited by Syzygian; 03-24-2016 at 01:09 PM.