If You Were A Class/Job Designer...

[Tanathya]

Uh, almost every post on these forums remotely to do with a samurai job right now is assuming its going to be a tank. I just don't want any more drk-style butthurt where people expect a job to be x and se decides to make it y and people qq about it forever.

Yeah, because expecting a FF to be a FF instead of a copy of any other MMO is that weird. Oh, well!

[DWolfwood]

snip

People who don't really understand the job speak out more than those who do.

There's tons of changes people want, I'm not trying to suggest specifics. The fundamental issue is the way they handled tank balance. DRK is a poorly designed job built around a great idea. It does the trick and has serious advantages, but the design and balance of the classes shouldn't suffer because people who aren't capable of imagining better balancing say things are "fine."

[MagiusNecros]

People who don't really understand the job speak out more than those who do.

There's tons of changes people want, I'm not trying to suggest specifics. The fundamental issue is the way they handled tank balance. DRK is a poorly designed job built around a great idea. It does the trick and has serious advantages, but the design and balance of the classes shouldn't suffer because people who aren't capable of imagining better balancing say things are "fine."

I know their main draw was basically to make a magic oriented tank class but I feel the execution is rather poor. To me it doesn't "feel like a Dark Knight". Looks the part but I always feel like something is missing.

I see this spiky armor and the magic spikes that come out from Grit and LD and always wonder why we don't have a passive spike damage on damage taken thing going on.

[Eloah]

Doing a write up on my issues with DRK, but as for what I want them to be defined as...

PLD: Healing Magic / High Defense
WAR: High HP / Party Buffing (e.g. "Warcry" would boost party's AP by _% for _seconds.)
DRK: High DPS / Magic Based focusing around Drain Spells

PLD should receive an enmity boost to Clemency and allow shields to prevent interruption. WAR should stay mostly the same, with the addition of said "Warcry" ability. DRK is the one that would be greatly changed. I'll be talking more about it in my write up, but their DPS should be heavily buffed overall to stand out as the high-dps tank.

Warriors already have Warcry. The english Infuriate is actually Warcry in japanese. Why it was changed I don't know but, meh.

Also I havent read every post, but did this thread turn into a, "what's wrong with tanks and how to make them better" thread?

[ArdorGrey]

Warriors already have Warcry. The english Infuriate is actually Warcry in japanese. Why it was changed I don't know but, meh.

Also I havent read every post, but did this thread turn into a, "what's wrong with tanks and how to make them better" thread?

literally every topic on this board sooner or later turns into "this is why I think pld/drk should be the best tank and war should be nerfed/indirectly nerfed in comparison to my preferred kewel tank". it's why I don't bother posting anymore. I have no clue why you're acting surprised that this topic has turned out any different.

[Syzygian]

Well in spite of what were probably Spooky's best intentions this turned from a suggestion/adjustment discussion thread into a "Here's 3 totally different tanks that I would replace the 3 existing tanks with because SE should just quit, go home, and hire me to do the job instead! " thread.

I for one am pretty vexed by the amount of nostalgia-mongering that insists a job cannot ever outgrow its first 1 or 2 iterations in the FF series, and how many people refuse to appreciate the fresh creative takes on the classic jobs and their new incarnations in this game for what they are.

The line between tank and DPS is pretty blurry in single-player FFs. Its more like you have physical DDs and magic DDs and some of the physical DDs are a little bulkier and some of the magic DDs have healing magic. I mean tank is a decidedly MMO concept. How are they going to make tanks without pulling from some of the classic DD jobs? The whole thing is just really really petty.

[Eloah]

Well in spite of what were probably Spooky's best intentions this turned from a suggestion/adjustment discussion thread into a "Here's 3 totally different tanks that I would replace the 3 existing tanks with because SE should just quit, go home, and hire me to do the job instead! " thread.

I for one am pretty vexed by the amount of nostalgia-mongering that insists a job cannot ever outgrow its first 1 or 2 iterations in the FF series, and how many people refuse to appreciate the fresh creative takes on the classic jobs and their new incarnations in this game for what they are.

The line between tank and DPS is pretty blurry in single-player FFs. Its more like you have physical DDs and magic DDs and some of the physical DDs are a little bulkier and some of the magic DDs have healing magic. I mean tank is a decidedly MMO concept. How are they going to make tanks without pulling from some of the classic DD jobs? The whole thing is just really really petty.

I agree. I had to start tanking, kinda, for my roulettes, healer ques have jumped, why? And I mostly go as a DRK and I love it. Yeah I get the whole they traditionally use their HP for attacking, but I love that SE kept that feel but moved it to their MP; since a tank sacrificing their HP makes no sense. I think for the most part every tank is fine. I'm sure if I looked and played each one a lot, I would have ideas of what should change at the ready, but they feel okay to me. I personally want a magic tank. I made a mockup Geomancer tank that I think would fit into this game beautifully. It would be neat they would require MP management similar to DRK but they would have a fluid combo system and elemental shields that they use for both mitigation and offense. If anyone is interested feel free to check out the link in my signature. I really should update those classes/jobs to 60, lol.

[ArdorGrey]

Well in spite of what were probably Spooky's best intentions this turned from a suggestion/adjustment discussion thread into a "Here's 3 totally different tanks that I would replace the 3 existing tanks with because SE should just quit, go home, and hire me to do the job instead! " thread.

I for one am pretty vexed by the amount of nostalgia-mongering that insists a job cannot ever outgrow its first 1 or 2 iterations in the FF series, and how many people refuse to appreciate the fresh creative takes on the classic jobs and their new incarnations in this game for what they are.


The line between tank and DPS is pretty blurry in single-player FFs. Its more like you have physical DDs and magic DDs and some of the physical DDs are a little bulkier and some of the magic DDs have healing magic. I mean tank is a decidedly MMO concept. How are they going to make tanks without pulling from some of the classic DD jobs? The whole thing is just really really petty.

I feel like you have a lot of conflicting thoughts here. It sounds like you're basically saying they *should* make sam a tank. I think you're thinking strictly about drk. But you should consider the full weight of your words before committing to them. Or who knows maybe you're deliberately going back on your previous statement.

Sam will probably be a DD. It could still fit as either. I'm past the point of actively hoping it'll be a tank, I guess I do still hope that it's implemented alongside some sort of trait choice system that allows one flexibility in what exact role a job plays. it will also never stop annoying me to no end how Ravana foiled Shivas attack with an attack of his own if sam isn't a badass tank with some sort of ability like IB on steroids but with more mitigation and less health drain/damage.

It's also still worth noting that the first thing Yoshi p. ever said about drk when asked about it, was that he saw it as a dps splitting off from gld. That obviously didn't happen, at all. May not carry much weight after the mch thing, but it's still a thing.

[Zadocfish]

If I were a job designer... I would probably switch when PLD gets Cover and Shield Stance. Cover very rarely used or necessary; if you're holding aggro, you would only have an occasion to use Cover for bosses that target players regardless of enmity. Even then, it's not that great, since before lvl 50 bosses almost never one-shot DPS in those situations. Shield Stance, meanwhile, is a pivotal ability for PLD that makes dungeons and holding enmity very, very much easier.

[Yuni_Queen]

Until making samurai just like arcanist class. splitting at level 30 into tank or dps. i would actually be overexcited to have 2 katana classes rather than just one. But Yuni is Katana/two-handed Freak, so it will never happen. i quess SE would say: "too much classes to balance". And i understand them. its hard to balance basic Warrior-Mage-Archer pattern type games, not to speak of whole expansion.