Machinist and Bard after 3.2

[Danatoth]

With the upcoming changes to MCH in 3.2, will this change anything for the debate of BRD vs MCH?

To my knowledge, MCH isn't just thought of as second tier only due to their sub par dps, but also due to their complexity comparatively to bard.

What do you guys think? Would you rather have a knowledgeable bard, or a knowledgeable machinist in your group?

I currently have my MCH to 45 and it feels quite clunky. Waiting for procs, having to blow everything at once to do any dps during 1 damage skill (wildfire) and having to place down turrets. It's a lot of work for the same effects as a bard.

[Ephier]

We will know nothing until patch notes come out.

[Mimilu]

I don't think so.
I remember when AST got a buff, a bunch of people said things like WHM would be obsolete and AST's shields would be better then SCH's... >w>
Those were the days. =w=

[Cabalabob]

MCH more has a place in a heavy melee setup, if you have lots of mages BRD trumps MCH completely cause 10% magic damage with the option to make it 20% during bursts vs 5% on a 2 min cooldown for 20 seconds with no option to increase it, there's just no contest, but BRD has no physical equivalent while MCH does.

Problem is people generally go for a mixed setup of mages and melee but can only have 1 support so BRD wins cause 10-20% of one type of damage tops 5% of either type.

So MCH, having weaker support, should really have higher personal DPS to make up for it. But as it is right now they are on par with BRD if not worse.

[RiceisNice]

MCH more has a place in a heavy melee setup, if you have lots of mages BRD trumps MCH completely...

Problem is people generally go for a mixed setup of mages and melee but can only have 1 support so BRD wins cause 10-20% of one type of damage tops 5% of either type.

So MCH, having weaker support, should really have higher personal DPS to make up for it. But as it is right now they are on par with BRD if not worse.

With the planned lb changes, you probably won't see a triple melee setup anymore. Even with 2 melee/1 caster, brd will stil win out because of foe affecting healers, and mch has no answer for rain of death.

Bard also scales much better from gear stats, so mch needs some good changes in almost all areas to be on comparable footing

[Kuwagami]

With the planned lb changes, you probably won't see a triple melee setup anymore.

Why not ? a MCH/NIN/DRG/MNK setting is still possible with the new LB system

http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#bos...spec=Machinist

http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#bos...obal&spec=Bard

No?




I was unaware that a 90 DPS MINIMUM difference in DPS was small. Some people play the class to have fun, and that is fine. But for end game players who actually care about their numbers and small minor things such as proc timings, BRD is just out right better than MCH currently.

Also, you have a few end game players who regularly post on the forums.

yeah yeah.

What's fun with numbers, is that they totally ignore context. FFxiv is a group based game. Individual numbers don't mean anything.

[Ephier]

Individual numbers don't mean anything.

I think my head just exploded. Individual numbers mean a lot. If you yourself are not contributing, then you are a shackle for your group. Picking up as much slack on your side as you can will help alleviate issues on other things. I don't think people really understand that DPS makes the game go' round. Faster DPS means less damage taken, which means less healing needing to be done, which means resources do not need to be as heavily used. Individual DPS is just as important as caring for the group. Its when you cannot balance the two is when it becomes a problem.

[Kuwagami]

I think my head just exploded. Individual numbers mean a lot. If you yourself are not contributing, then you are a shackle for your group. Picking up as much slack on your side as you can will help alleviate issues on other things. I don't think people really understand that DPS makes the game go' round. Faster DPS means less damage taken, which means less healing needing to be done, which means resources do not need to be as heavily used. Individual DPS is just as important as caring for the group. Its when you cannot balance the two is when it becomes a problem.

Let me rephrase that : Individual numbers don't mean anything if you are to ignore all of the context around. Yeah the best of best machinists have 90 dps less than the bests of best bards. soooo, what ? Doesn't mean crap if that dps is more than enough to kill the duty.

Anyway, let's assume that would matter for a reason or an other. Context then : what about the other members in the group ? The best bard could have a DRG with them while the best MCH doesn't. Bam here is a difference. Or a ninja. Bam, an other difference. Differences that your individual number totally fails to take into consideration.

Also, there is time spent in quarantine (dps loss because you aren't hitting anything during the transfer to the quarantine chamber), if they were chosen to die to pentacles or not, etc etc...

And after all that, individual numbers fail to take into consideration the dps increase to the other members of the raid. That machinist will increase the dps of all the physical jobs. Depending on the party set up, that coudl amount to more than what a bard would bring.

That's what I mean by "individual numbers don't mean anything". Else noone would ever bring ninjas, because DRG and MNK have more individual dps right ?


edit : don't take me wrong though. MCH is slightly sup-performing compared to BRD, I agree. I really just want to point out that parsers should be used with more care on how you handle the data

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

With the planned lb changes, you probably won't see a triple melee setup anymore. Even with 2 melee/1 caster, brd will stil win out because of foe affecting healers

How come tanks aren't included here? :P

[Cabalabob]

How come tanks aren't included here? :P

Cause 1 Mage + 2 healers + 1 BRD = 30-60% magic damage increase.
2 melee and 2 tanks + 1 MCH = 25% physical increase for a shorter amount of time.

Let alone a 2 mages 1 melee setup.