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  1. #11
    Player
    SwordCoheir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Sword Coheir
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Launched View Post
    Nah, if you want DRK to be considered the DRG of tanks, it shouldn't be able to outDPS WAR in any situation. But it does.
    Yeah, but it's arguable when you work in WAR's utility too. I think it ends up working like this for Tanks.

    WAR: Best OT DPS, High MT DPS, Best Utility
    DRK: High OT DPS, Best MT DPS, Worst Utility
    PLD: Worst OT DPS, Worst MT DPS, High Utility (And I'm being generous with utility for Pally's)

    Only thing they got going for them equally is defensive capability with minor advantages based on specific situations that happen to cater to their strengths.
    (1)

    Support RDM Development: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/42776-How-Would-You-Design-Red-Mage%21[/center]

  2. #12
    Player
    Instrumentality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    413
    Character
    Eureka Evergarden
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Launched View Post
    Nah, if you want DRK to be considered the DRG of tanks, it shouldn't be able to outDPS WAR in any situation. But it does.
    What situation would this be?
    (0)
    My life while tanking is an existential hell from which there is no escape.

  3. #13
    Player
    Anubis_Nephthys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    343
    Character
    Anubis Nephthys
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Have you seen fflogs? In terms of dps, it's WAR>DRK>PLD
    Top 10 WARs are doing 1392.4 (averaged) dps on AS1.
    Top 10 DRKs are doing 1340.3
    Top 10 PLDs are doing 1125.4
    For AS1, the top PLD is ranked #96 in terms of all tank dps.
    That's why they got a buff.
    (0)
    Last edited by Anubis_Nephthys; 02-22-2016 at 10:03 AM. Reason: additional info

  4. #14
    Player
    Syzygian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    735
    Character
    Syzygia Coahcuhhar
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Launched View Post
    Nah, if you want DRK to be considered the DRG of tanks, it shouldn't be able to outDPS WAR in any situation. But it does.
    Let me get this straight.

    Its okay for WAR to be the MNK of tanks on DPS and the NIN of tanks on utility at the same time with none of the drawbacks. But its not okay for DRK to have at least DRG level utility?

    WAR and DRK each get a +1 for their top DPS in OT and MT respectively, but on utility, its more like 2:0.5 WARRK.

    DRK should have equal utility to WAR.

    Anyway, I'd happily sacrifice the one niche situation where I can outDPS WAR for better utility, because that one situation where I can outDPS WAR requires an extremely co-operative WAR (one that is willing to sacrifice BB spam) and requires me to tank out of tank stance for 90% of an encounter, otherwise it ain't happening.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    SpookyGhost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    3,403
    Character
    Kori Fleming
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Syzygian View Post
    DRK should have equal utility to WAR.
    Personally (and I've posted this before), I've always felt like to separate the tanks all 3 should have equal damage and mitigation, but be separated by the utility they bring. Make it so that any composition can clear it, but certain jobs unique utility can be complimentary to the fight, or maybe even have all 3 have some unique contribution to the fight. It'd be min/maxed by world first raiders, but it'd be very small gains in only certain aspects of the fight that would be trivialized by anyone not racing for world clears (even then if it's a small enough difference people might not care at all). Some could argue that this would be homogenization, but you could definitely make the utility pretty unique while still making them all equally beneficial. I dunno, I always thought it was weird that WAR did more DPS - maybe if it had horrible mitigation, but that seems like a really poor trade off for a y'know... tank.
    (5)

  6. #16
    Player
    Syzygian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    735
    Character
    Syzygia Coahcuhhar
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by SpookyGhost View Post
    snip
    I mean, it can be totally different utility, and I'm all for that. The balance of DPS is fine IMO. Hell, even PLD could still use some utility buffs. They both could, because neither of them can bring the personal DPS contribution that WAR can, unless the DRK is lucky enough to have a group that is willing to cater to Gritless MTing, which requires a lot of sacrifices, and may not even be a thing this tier.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79
    Quote Originally Posted by Syzygian View Post
    Look at the balance of the melee DPS for guidance. Its arguably perfect:

    MNK: best personal DPS, unused in cutting edge as of 3.0
    DRG: Mandatory
    NIN: Mandatory
    .
    I don't see how it's balanced per se when one class is nearly entirely unused. Most raid groups I know of are running drg and nin so they can maximize raid DPS. I only know of one monk with a static, rest will take a monk to high end raids when they'll take a paladin.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Violette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    545
    Character
    Eonkhui Malaguld
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    Put deliverance and defiance on the gcd. Boom, war kicked in the teeth.

    But if the damage is not squeezed into 5 seconds out of 25, then we see wars ability to dps during the mt phase hampered.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player
    Valkyrie-Amber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    530
    Character
    Silver Tiger
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpheus65478 View Post
    So will someone tell me why a sword and board can out dps a great sword? It just doesn't make sense.
    Just like how A great axe wielder or great sword wielder is more tanky than a sword and board it makes no sence eiter.

    Ballance matters get used to it
    (4)

  10. #20
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpheus65478 View Post
    So will someone tell me why a sword and board can out dps a great sword? It just doesn't make sense.
    Shouldn't you ask how a knife can outdps a great sword too ? Or a barefist ?
    Or how you can keep your aim while running around with your bow, even when not facing your target ?

    Reality has no place here
    (5)

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