DPS: Why is it so dang taboo?

[GaiTsutsugami]

A 'toxic' player is someone who complains on the blames things on the obvious, or making unhelpful remarks like "stop dying."

If you know what it's like to be yelled at for making a slip up as a tank or healer, then you should know how dps feel when they get singled out.



This is what I tell my self all the time. It's not my fault I can't clear savage! It's society! :P

Okay but in content where any and all dps counts you have to single people out because a weak link ANYWHERE is likely a wipe.

Not to mention people expect a basic level of proficiency from the other roles so why can we not expect it from dps...?

[Arrius]

if anyone reports you, you're gone. SE has basicly given a "don't ask don't tell policy. As long as you keep your trap shut you can't get in trouble. The moment you open it and someone says something to GM, that's game over.

Instead, GM's allow players to dismiss others in the party when 'their playstyle differs from others'.
So when I got the evidence via parsers (but never would admit it) and get a few others convinced via tell/skype/linkshell that the said suspect is significantly bad at playing its class, I can throw him out without any official statment in party chat and probably get away with it. And a replacement is quicky found anyway.

Which now, I wonder, is the lesser evil of both?

[SnugglesD]

if anyone reports you, you're gone. SE has basicly given a "don't ask don't tell policy. As long as you keep your trap shut you can't get in trouble. The moment you open it and someone says something to GM, that's game over.

That's 100% incorrect. GM's ignore parsing complaints all day, every day unless it involves extreme harassment. You have no idea what you're talking about. TONS of people parse. The world first videos that the Yoshi himself references have parse overlays in them. They don't care in the slightest as long as you're not being a dick. What you're spreading is propaganda perpetrated by super casuals that have no idea how many people parse and how often its discussed.

[Morzy]

A silly question. People are self concious and it gets the better of them.

How big is the sky?
How deep is the ocean?
Who is John Galt?

[Ironos]

That's 100% incorrect. GM's ignore parsing complaints all day, every day unless it involves extreme harassment. You have no idea what you're talking about. TONS of people parse. The world first videos that the Yoshi himself references have parse overlays in them. They don't care in the slightest as long as you're not being a dick. What you're spreading is propaganda perpetrated by super casuals that have no idea how many people parse and how often its discussed.

Snuggles, could you be more cynical and misanthropic? You're acting like anyone getting offended about anything is the worst offense in the world. People get upset, it's what makes us human. So, the guy who told me to go kill myself once in DF, I shouldn't have reported that? I should've just let that guy go on being a sociopath? I guess I was just being one of the "coddled, everyone is a winner" kind of person. Silly of me to think that nobody should be told something like that, according to you.

Also, if you're going to make objective, quantitative claims like "100% incorrect" and "GMs ignore parsing complaints all day," please show me some source on that. Otherwise you're just throwing points out there to help your already poor argument. You already killed your own credibility by using a laughably bad term like "super casual."

[Artemiz]

The main problem I see is that people are often unaware of just how bad they are at something, sometimes it's their role, sometimes it's giving advice. I mean, if someone spoke to me with this attitude

Unfortunately, a lot of people pick DPS classes because they feel it's low responsibility, that they can slack off and nobody will even notice, let alone call them out on it. The trick is to treat DPS exactly the way they want to be treated, which is as useless, replaceable peons that nobody would notice if they were missing. It's a low responsibility tool that's easily replaceable, so don't worry about them getting offended, and if they continue to mouth off then just get a new one.

They'd get told to **** off, plain and simple. I don't care if I was parsing lower than others, they'd still get told to **** off. Constructive criticism is an artform that few people actually have yet everyone thinks they do. It's not about an entitled generation or special snowflakes just basic human interaction. We're not talking about the migrant crisis or ISIS here, I can understand why people refuse to bow to political correctness when it comes to the greatest challenges of our time. For the most part we're talking about why that Stone Vigil run took longer than expected or why we wiped to a simple boss. A lot of the people I see giving "advice" are dicks about it, they come across as condecending, patronising, self-righteous dicks who would cry from the highest building if anyone spoke to them the way they speak to others.

If you're trying to put together an end game static then sure, that DPS who is holding everyone back either needs to shape up or go, it's the law of the jungle at that point and most can't take passengers in EG content, or have no desire too which is fair enough. These threads pop up though and usually have a nice screen cap which shows everyone behaving like little kids and the OP holding his hands up saying "I din do nuffin!!" during a 60 roulette run or something. I'm not trying to be a bad player apologist or anything, I'm just old enough to realise that moaning and insulting poeple won't suddenly change a casual player base into A4S clearing superstars. Some people are good at games, some aren't and we all mix together in the melting pot that is DF, learn to deal with it.

[autumn]

If you're trying to put together an end game static then sure, that DPS who is holding everyone back either needs to shape up or go, it's the law of the jungle at that point and most can't take passengers in EG content, or have no desire too which is fair enough. These threads pop up though and usually have a nice screen cap which shows everyone behaving like little kids and the OP holding his hands up saying "I din do nuffin!!" during a 60 roulette run or something. I'm not trying to be a bad player apologist or anything, I'm just old enough to realise that moaning and insulting poeple won't suddenly change a casual player base into A4S clearing superstars. Some people are good at games, some aren't and we all mix together in the melting pot that is DF, learn to deal with it.

Well said Artemiz!

[Taika]

Unfortunately, a lot of people pick DPS classes because they feel it's low responsibility, that they can slack off and nobody will even notice, let alone call them out on it.

It's strange this indeed seems to be the case, because from my perspective playing a DD job well in this game requires much more effort and focus than playing a healer or tank job well. A tank or healer not playing their absolute top game in Savage are much less likely to make the group lose the fight than if the DDs do the same, and very rare DD players are able to do actual good numbers in any difficult fight.

[Genaxx]

If you asked me when I was six who the fastest person on the planet was, I would have told you it was me. I ran like the wind and I knew it, and when you run without a stop watch or against other people you take it as fact. It wasn't until my first track meet as a kid that I found out maybe I could improve, mostly cause coming in third and seeing the backs of two other people ahead of you makes it rather obvious. We don't have that in XIV, cause outside a third party tool we are racing ourselves and winning to the surprise of none. The game needs a way to tell people their results, even if it's a score card handed out by the server after exiting the dungeon.

Motivation doesn't mean much if you already think you're at the top of your game. What we have now thanks to a lack of feedback from the system is a bunch of people thinking they are a carpenter, but they are putting in screws with a hammer.

I believe this is the real issue, lack of feedback from the game. No one has ever been shown that they are performing badly whether that be from parsers, a grade at the end of a dungeon, based on the current party or the server average. It's the mentality of 'well i've never been told I was a bad player so theres nothing wrong'.

They need to see hard facts from the game, not people they're paired up with in the DF otherwise its just seen as an attack. You never hear scoreboards being toxic or elitest do you?

Im sure if anyone run dungeons and saw at the end of almost every run;
'Average DPS rank for your class: B'
'Your DPS rank: E'

They would start to think wow it wasn't people just being nasty, i'm doing quite badly compared to everyone else, I should step up my game.

And I believe that this shouldn't be something optional like S3. It should be private to the player at the end of every instance based on your job, level, ilvl and the server/data center average.

[l---------------l]

I just wanna start out saying, I main bard and I'm not exactly new, so I get how it goes as a dps. (Cleared thor and Alex S 1/2... screw 3). I also know the answer before I ask this so consider i for rhetoric's sake.

Why is everyone so touchy about their dps when they're told to step it up? Almost every single other mainstream MMO has some form of in game metric for dps aside from 'can i clear xyz.' Healers and tanks don't get a free pass, why do dps? Most dps complain too when a tank or healer makes one slip up, but 2/4 dps can drag 8 people down and suddenly you're a 'toxic' player for pointing it out.

I really, really, really wish parsing was a native function and we didn't have to use 3rd party stuff. I love ACT but I honestly believe this community could use a good wake up.

Anyway to avoid complain thread: ITT discuss times dps stood out to you!

You have a lot of right in yourself... And I FULLY BLOODY (Reference?) Support you, but... Alas, somehow in this community if you say a DPS that his damage is HALF the damage you do with your tank having less gear than them... You are some kind of criminal that should get banned.

You are literally not allowed to whine about it, nor say you use a 3rd party program, you are defenseless and your unique option is to deal with it, even if the one in your party is probably just doing auto-attacks and random things afking while you do the carry for his roulette.