DPS: Why is it so dang taboo?

[Galgarion]

Speaking of strawman arguments...

You completely misunderstood what I was saying and decided to just lump me in with all other "PC" arguments. My point is that there is no possible way to be constructive with any kind of criticism towards the people I was talking about. You can be as positive as you want about it, but any response other that blatantly lying and saying "no, you're perfectly fine" is an affront to humanity and the subject of demonization. I've seen more people explode over politely phrased pointers than I can count.

My argument had absolutely nothing to do with being rude. I'm not advocating being a douchebag. I was trying to point out that the reality of our society now is exactly what happened with your response. No matter how you try and phrase something, some emotionally stunted person is going to flip their shit because you didn't lie to them and tell them exactly what they wanted to hear.

The gnome raises a good point. I've been in three free companies last year where people rage quit with a bunch of drama and whinging because you can't even tell people how they can improve over teamspeak in a friendly conversation. People don't want to be critiqued, they want to be told that they're awesome, the best, the greatest, one hundred percent pure sex with lightning bolt hip thrusts, and anything less than an affirmation of how wonderful they are is grounds for the ignore list and a smear campaign. It's both crazy and disgusting.

[Ilitsa]

The gnome raises a good point. I've been in three free companies last year where people rage quit with a bunch of drama and whinging because you can't even tell people how they can improve over teamspeak in a friendly conversation. People don't want to be critiqued, they want to be told that they're awesome, the best, the greatest, one hundred percent pure sex with lightning bolt hip thrusts, and anything less than an affirmation of how wonderful they are is grounds for the ignore list and a smear campaign. It's both crazy and disgusting.

SOME people are like that, yes, not everyone. Vast majority will listen if the person "critiquing" isn't being condescending. Case and point, was in a Sohm Al run just tonight, where the blm was opening with thunder 3 and using 3 fires to get the Astral III status, I calmly explained that opening with a thunder 2, and use thunder 3 on thundercloud procs, and that using fire 3 is far more mana efficient, and adding in using Blizz 3 before the fire 3 for reduced mp cost on the fire, as well if so wished, they simply thanked me and began doing as I had said. There was no name calling, no drama, but, according to you and snuggles, interactions like this are impossible and NEVER happen. I'm FAR from a perfect rotation BLM, but I am decent enough to offer small tidbits of advice here and there, I have lots of room to improve myself, though, so if I stumble across someone that wants to politely explain something, I'll gladly listen. I'm under no obligation though to listen to someone that's being a rude, pompous, belittling jerk, however.

[Animarelic]

The problem stems from several sources. We currently live in the society of the participation trophy. Self esteem is considered more important than hard work so everyone gets a prize. People are coddled from a young age and any form of criticism, whether its constructive or not, is immediately evil. Our society's overblown focus on political correctness has demonized anything that could possibly be construed as slightly negative. Everything must sound like a my little pony commercial or you're a hateful bully that can't be tolerated.

Kosmos also had it right with the single player game mentality. Games have evolved into glorified button-mashers. Strategy and practice is a thing of the past. If it weren't for games like dark souls, people who like to be challenged would have no outlet.

All of these things compiled lead to one inevitable outcome: butthurt.

This is the most Valid point on this thread and defensive replies validates that. People will always try to make up for their short comings with an excuse and sometimes no matter how well you "candy coat" it they will still get offended by you.
I can count on one hand how many times a group failed a DPS check and any individuals asks " Was it me?" or "How can I get better?" Most don't they walk off and repeat the same mistakes over and over until they become unwanted.

Most players don't have an Epiphany they are forced into the realization they are playing incorrectly anyways. So why not be tactfully upfront in the first place? it'll only make them better.

[birdy_reene]

This is the most Valid point on this thread and defensive replies validates that. People will always try to make up for their short comings with an excuse and sometimes no matter how well you "candy coat" it they will still get offended by you.
I can count on one hand how many times a group failed a DPS check and any individuals asks " Was it me?" or "How can I get better?" Most don't they walk off and repeat the same mistakes over and over until they become unwanted.

Most players don't have an Epiphany they are forced into the realization they are playing incorrectly anyways. So why not be tactfully upfront in the first place? it'll only make them better.

I must be a rare cookie then, on my dragoon, im always lookin for advise. heck just last night I owned up to misclicking a few times. I want that A1S clear bad, so love when people give me pointers.

[LordLucavi]

The biggest issue I've seen is that it's never "Hey, you should try this buff with this rotation" or "If you stack this and this, it increases x by y", it's always "Zomg I m teh 1337 DPS dood an u suk! U needa hurt more thing narf POIT derp!"

People should take the time to learn their jobs inside and out, learning what to use and when, and when it's better to stack everything for a huge spike, and when it's better to cycle through for extended high damage.

[Asmodai]

The biggest issue I've seen is that it's never "Hey, you should try this buff with this rotation" or "If you stack this and this, it increases x by y", it's always "Zomg I m teh 1337 DPS dood an u suk! U needa hurt more thing narf POIT derp!".

I have never once been in a static raid group that did not try and help people up their dps.

[DPZ2]

Why is everyone so touchy about their dps when they're told to step it up?

Because most of the game doesn't require anyone to "step it up". And because many of the people who think it's their duty to tell someone to "step it up" are not, let's put this delicately, even vaguely diplomatic in their manner of the telling.

[Averax]

Because most of the game doesn't require anyone to "step it up". And because many of the people who think it's their duty to tell someone to "step it up" are not, let's put this delicately, even vaguely diplomatic in their manner of the telling.

To be fair, there is no nice way of telling someone that they're not performing up to expectations. Every criticism is treated as a personal attack, and they will lash out at you for suggesting they could do any wrong.

I once suggested to a SMN that they should cast Ruin as a filler instead of just standing around waiting for their dots to expire, and that maybe he should cast ruin 3 when he used Dreadwyrm Trance (rather than just blowing deathflare off cd), which prompted a string of insults in my direction. They tried to tell me i was a terrible healer because everyone was not topped off all the time. Seeing how things had resorted to ad-hominem attacks, i decied to stop playing nicely and retorted, "well everyone would be nice and full if i didn't have to pick up the slack in dps."

That did it for him, he ran and facepulled the boss and bailed (and it was the fractal continuum boss so it was not possible to down it without the extra dps. Not that we were downing it before that anyway.

The moral of this story is that people hate to be criticized for their benefit.

[Ilitsa]

I think it's more the "manner" in which it's said. Tanks and Healers both tend to treat DPS players like shit, saying things like "Don't like it, leave, you're replacable" and the like, not realizing that THEY, themselves are equally replacable.

Also, people tend to not just say "Hey think you could try to push a little harder" or things like that, in a polite manner, it's usually "omfg you stupid fking ___." along with the name calling of "autistic/retard, piece of shit", etc. Not one person I know takes "step up your dps" negatively, unless there's name calling, belittling, bullying weaved in with it. Want positive reactions? Be constructive rather than destructive. It goes a long ways.

Note: I know not ALL players take advice positively, but I feel those that react negatively to positive, constructive criticism are in the minority.

Everything must sound like a my little pony commercial or you're a hateful bully that can't be tolerated.

And exactly what is wrong with treating another human being like, you know, another human being? I never understand people's insistence on being jerks, it takes a lot more effort and energy to be a douche, imo

[birdy_reene]

I think it's more the "manner" in which it's said. Tanks and Healers both tend to treat DPS players like shit, saying things like "Don't like it, leave, you're replacable" and the like, not realizing that THEY, themselves are equally replacable.

This right here says it perfectly. Most players say it in a rude fashion and it makes me want to drag my feet even more. especially if its from a minor mis-click, or for example with dragoon, sometimes those latency spikes where on your screen you did use the skill, but then low n behold a stutterstep happens and the game says you messed up your rotation cause it didn't get the message. and now u got someone rippin you a new rear end for it, Which is annoying enough as it is, then to have a player jump down your throat for it. It fuels some pretty negative reactions. So I like how Ilitsa said it. Saying it in a more constructive manor and you wont get as rude a response.