Why is so hard for newbies to learn how to raid?

[jssanderson747]

From the perspective of a raid leader, the honest answer I have for you is simple. We don't want to waste a raid night wiping for otherwise preventable reasons. I can understand that mindset as someone who's cleared AS1-2 every week for a while now. As for fights that we haven't cleared, it's just generally preferable to have someone who understands how to perform on their role. If we wipe because the tank popped zero cds when they were needed, there's no point in bringing them into AS3, because they would never have gotten there normally.
My advice is pretty straightforward, find a static for Midas savage. You can clear these fights in pf, but if you're 5 months late, no one on your server is likely to care if you want to learn.

[MeiUshu]

snips.

my goodness.. this is just ..soo wrong.. any new will be late ..ANY new player will be late because guess what tyhe didnt start a century ago. How are they going to enjoy the content that nobody is willing to help them with in the first place ? since according to you most of the players by the time those new addition reach that level will be well over it and dont care IF someone else needs help..my goodness...and people Wonder why I lost faith in this comunity

[FinalWolf]

my goodness.. this is just ..soo wrong.. any new will be late ..ANY new player will be late because guess what tyhe didnt start a century ago. How are they going to enjoy the content that nobody is willing to help them with in the first place ? since according to you most of the players by the time those new addition reach that level will be well over it and dont care IF someone else needs help..my goodness...and people Wonder why I lost faith in this comunity

Well most people won't give a shit the only thing I can tell you is to keep making learning groups.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

.......

There is a difference in players who are wanting to work at their job and a fight and those who simply wish to be carried for their 1 clear. I can't tell you how many times I have PUGd ThorEx over the last month and seen people make multiple, simple mistakes that can easily be corrected, but the player skill just isn't there. I have seen PLD as MT out dps actual DD's, I have seen SCH out damage actual DD's as well.

At this point in content, there is enough information out there that players shouldn't be dying to stupid things consistently. If you are already raiding a significant number of hours, this is a very frustrating aspect to deal with.

OP -

Continue the path of learning parties, strive for perfection on your job, WORK for your progress within each fight. Hard work will get noticed, and people (even raiders) are much more willing to work with you, if they feel that you are willing to put forth effort.

[Ashkendor]

I see people try this all the time on the weekends while stalking PF for pony farms, but they rarely fill up. Specifically for A1S they never usually get to more than 3 or 4 people.

It's barely even a band-aid. A lot of people make these recommendations, and while they are nice in theory, in practice it doesn't always work as well.

Uh. My server's a lot less populated than yours and learning/clear parties typically fill within 15-20 minutes at peak times. Then again, right now in particular we have a lot of really bored people looking for stuff to do to kill time till the next patch. Hell, I joined an A1S party last week (or the week before maybe?) that turned out to be a total trap. 6/8 of us thought the new guy knew the fight. One other person knew he'd never been in there but didn't say anything until after we'd killed Faust (lol). 4/8 of us were on roles we weren't familiar with. End result? We got a clear for two people and I've cleared A1S as a Scholar now.

my goodness.. this is just ..soo wrong.. any new will be late ..ANY new player will be late because guess what tyhe didnt start a century ago. How are they going to enjoy the content that nobody is willing to help them with in the first place ? since according to you most of the players by the time those new addition reach that level will be well over it and dont care IF someone else needs help..my goodness...and people Wonder why I lost faith in this comunity

So you really can't understand why 7/8 of a static would want to just go in and painlessly clear content they've been clearing for weeks instead of spending hours of their raid night walking some pug through it? You're not even trying to see it from anyone else's point of view but your own then. Seriously, a lot of veteran players will join those learning/clear parties (on my server, at least) but we can't join what isn't even there. That whole "faith in the community" thing goes two ways, though. The fact of the matter is that veteran players have every right to have their own goals for their playtime. They have already put in the time required to learn the fight and if they only want people "on their level" to join their static raid time, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There is no "No Raider Left Behind" law at work here. Veterans do not exist for the sole purpose of carrying newcomers through content.

[jssanderson747]

ANY new player will be late because guess what tyhe didnt start a century ago.

Savage is not designed for everyone to enjoy, and you should not reach the conclusion that raiders disregarding newer players is wrong. That's extremely one sided and presumptuous. It's not hard to get someone situated into a fight if they are new to the fight. It is hard to get someone situated into the fight if they don't have the ability to perform in that fight. I've taken at least three players through AS2 who had never stepped foot in there within one or two raid nights. That's not complex. The key is very simply practice.

No one in my group wants to carry someone. That's just a pain in the butt. We're totally fine with working with other players if they're actually motivated and capable of working with our strategies. Experience or no

[Odett]

my goodness.. this is just ..soo wrong.. any new will be late ..ANY new player will be late because guess what tyhe didnt start a century ago. How are they going to enjoy the content that nobody is willing to help them with in the first place ? since according to you most of the players by the time those new addition reach that level will be well over it and dont care IF someone else needs help..my goodness...and people Wonder why I lost faith in this comunity

Not at all. No one is required to take you through any content. Sure, it's nice if people do, but they are by no means required. I am also a raid leader, and let me tell you something: working around the schedules of 7 other people, as well as your own, while dealing with RL stuff like your job, or school, or both, in order to consistently meet every week,is not easy at all. We raid 2 days a week and while we have a lot of fun doing it, we also don't have a lot of time to spare. When we look for replacements, it's completely understandable that we would prefer someone who already has experience, because we are short on time, and a lot of raid groups are like this. I'll sometimes go out of my way to help people, but other times it's just not reasonable, and also considered selfish if I don't take into account the opinions and time of 6 other party members when I invite a newbie into a group.

[Solebound]

snip.

I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'm pushing so hard to learn AS1-4 is because i want to participate in endgame 3.2. Many of the statics forming for Midas want people with raid experience in alexander as a prerequisite, so how might a person like me, in my situation break this cycle? In order to get in a static for Midas I have to clear Alexander. In order to clear Alexander I have to have experience no bonus allowed. I don't have many friends on this server as is so how can i break this cycle? I read as much on my job and mechanics as possible and practice. I don't sneek into pf groups pretending to know the fight because i find that to be disrespectful to the recruitment leaders criteria. Maybe i wont ever get into end game raiding because of this barrier and should stick to crafting i dunno.

[Lithe]

I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'm pushing so hard to learn AS1-4 is because i want to participate in endgame 3.2. Many of the statics forming for Midas want people with raid experience in alexander as a prerequisite, so how might a person like me, in my situation break this cycle?

A lot of people should be coming back for patch 3.2 and might not require much prior alex exp. You can also try and make a LS of people in the same boat as you and go from there.