Yet another "AST Tweaks" Thread

[LDR]

Because I'm bored at work and bandwagons are fun [plz dont shoot me]

To be honest I'm completely fine with AST as is, I'm not wanting for any changes really; the class works, its competetive, its potent, it has its own little things, the tool kit is fun and its a great healer to learn and play.

But of course p.much everyone always can think of something to edit or change on a class, and AST is no different even after the general buffs ages ago. I quite enjoy reading every thread about buffs/nerf/QOL changes etc and I'd be lying if I never thought about throwing my lil ideas up so here we go.


1. Obligitory swap of Gravity and Combust 2.
We all know why people want this. sycned to 50 SCH can bane dots, and WHM can holy, while the extent of AST aoe is manual multi-dotting which is just, why. Will this ever happen, probably not, but we can dream.

1.5. Gravity applies a Heavy affect.
Makes logical sense right? how useful is this exactly? PVE not hugely i guess, PVP... well idk since i dont pvp and im not going to pretend i have a clue, so if anyone wants to chime in on how big or small this would be in pvp plz do. Still, Gravity really should apply something.

2. Obligitory Spear affects all CD's even ones used change.
However i think the way i would want this change is slightly different from most.
As we all know it currently works like; Draw > Spear > use on target > target uses CD > CD gains reduced cooldown time even after spear falls off until the CD has reset.
And what i assume most people want is; Target uses CD > Draw > Spear > use on target > CD gains reduced cooldown time even after spear falls off until the CD has reset.
which ya know would be simple and nice.
-I don't like simple and nice-
I personally would find that change rather dull, imo it would turn Spear into a "just throw it on the tank and forget about it" kinda deal, minimal thought.
What I would change it to is; Target uses CD > Draw > Spear > use on target > CD gains reduced cooldown time while spear is in effect, however CD's used before Spear go back to normal cooldown rate after spear has worn off. CD's used during spear retain the current reduced cooldown effect even after spear drops.

IMO this would strike a balance between the desired "Spear affects used CD's" while not making it a run and gun card thrown about; it would also promote more use of RR effects ON Spear, do you enhance Spear for even faster CD times, do you extend it for more effect, do you also blow a time dialte on it, CO?
I like my complexity of AST which is why i personally would want the change to work like this, but i do completely understand the desire for the run-n-gun change.

3. Collective Unconscious.
I often see alot of people wanting changes to this skill. I honestly don't know why, i find it rather powerful and chock full of nice things. but eh i guess its use is still limited to certain scenarios; mostly raid wide damage where you can group up; or as a potent Diurnal A.Helios+A.Bene+CU = 3k+ HP regen ticks on your tank = DPS time max.
So I had a thought and i realised, sure, i can come up with something nice.
-While channeling CU, the caster gains the effects of Luminiferous Aether; this effect does NOT stay after CU is finished or cancled like the current buffs.
As it stands i rarely see CU actually channeled, its more used like a flick of a light bulb for the buffs and then dropped. gaining mana regen while you channel it for as long as you channel it? ho boy now im more tempted to HoT up my tank and sit next to the boss so i dont get cleaved but still channel heal him nicely while regaining MP.


And thats pretty much it.
Like I said I'm not wanting for changes/buffs, i dont want these changes, but i wouldnt complain about them if they happened ya know? these are just lil ideas i had and figured why not clutter up the forum with them and see what people think.
If something isnt clear just say and ill try explain better.

Anyway, ty for reading my bandwagon post, i look forward to comments.

[Alex_W]

These ideas seem really nice. I actually do like the complexity you added to spear. Now I actually want that implemented though :/

[Shurrikhan]

Agreed on the Spear changes. I'd always hoped it would be a +20% cooldown rate during duration + all abilities used during the cooldown require 20% less time to recharge. That way it favors neither long nor short cooldowns, exactly, and has ideal usage, but never no use.

Had always hoped that Gravity would draw enemies affected towards the target over a second, to be honest, slowing movement during the draw. AoE radius increased slightly, and damage based on range from the target. Various players pull adds towards the gather point, Gravity the first to arrive, pulling all into place, stun via CO, and tank has everything ready for their AoEs and dense placement. That said, I'd hate to lose Combust II during 50-sync fights even more than I'd like to have access to Gravity.

Apart from that, Shuffle's already seeing changes, so I'm happy.


__________________________________
I mean, if I were to go further, I suppose I'd just adjust a few more of the cards:

- While active, Bole reduces damage taken by 10% and duplicates 15% off all periodic healing received. (Does not need to have been active when the HoT was applied, but the benefit will die off with the card's duration.)
:: Now useful for recovery magic and useful in combination with HoTs, rather than only seeing significance as a last resort. (Slightly favors Diurnal; shield duplication not included since that would be much more usable than the naturally limited periodic heal ticks.)

- Ewer reduces mana costs by 20% while regenerating mana. Ewer automatically fades after having saved a maximum of 20% of base MP worth of mana. (~2275 MP) [Value TBD]
:: Same max mana returns for both healers and BLMs. Ewer's maximum MP returns have been increased. Now useful on BLMs as well.
:: Now actually provides enough mana to allow an extra Fire IV and Blizzard 3 on BLMs. Side-note: affects Flare. (Spending more than 1325 mana on a flare will leave you enough mana to Blizzard 3.)

- Spire reduces TP costs by 20% while regenerating TP, to a maximum of 250 TP. (Value TBR)
:: Ideally used before AoE spams to maximize the amount of TP saved. Now ~40% more effective if maxed out. Side-note: affects sprint.

These changes mostly just give additional roundness and more ideal usage situations and targets for the other three less desirable cards.

Edit:

Actually one more thing...
- Royal Road: Expand should should always equal approximately 200% of the total effect (as a sum of affected party members) of the card. The reduction of the card's effectiveness now depends on the number of players being affected.
2 players:100%. 3 players: 66%. 4+ players: 50%

Err, two more...
- Sects are now abilities and may be swapped in combat, but when swapped in combat prevents spells for 5 seconds. This penalty is reduced over time since the last cast, becoming entirely free over two minutes (only one GCD lost after 1 minute, etc.)
- Or some similar limitation while still allowing in combat swaps.

Three...
- Diurnal Sect also reduces MP costs by 5%.
- Nocturnal Sect also increases all potency done (not just healing potency) by 5%.

Welp, that's way too much, but at least it's all out of my head now.

[ruphk]

I like these ideas especially the Collective Unconscious idea. And I really like the animation too CU so its a plus for me.

[AlphaSonic]

I really like your ideas but I would add another one:

While channeling Collective Unconscious you lose aggro.

That would help a lot with the enmity caused by Collective Unconscious

[LDR]

ty for responces so far.

I try to stay away from changes that would be big and/or larger scale bufs vs minor ones since it would then raise the "wheres my whm/sch buffs" but anyway, time to dive my 2cents on other ideas;

@Shurrikhan I've seen that idea for Gravity before, would be rather cool tbh. although i think personally id prefer such an effect on a new skill, akin to a time rift/black hole. new skill at 70?
Also i i feel on loosing combust 2 sub 50, its a real 50/50 on AOE vs more ST DoTs
Card ideas oh i love reading these.
Bole is interesting, though personally id rather not have more than 1 affect per card, and i really wouldnt like a technical buff to heals gated to rng draws. still, interesting.
Ewer is interesting but sadly, wont work. Card buffs have to synergise with all RR effects; how would Ewer work with Extended if it auto drops after 20%? Enhanced would raise the cap to 30% while expanded would take it to 10% but AoE. Extended becomes null.
thats the big issue with card changes, they have to work with all RR buffs and if we make a move to add 2 or more effects per thing it could get hopelessly convulted. i once toyed with the idea of making ewer/spire work like invigorate giving a instant flat return but again, doesnt work with extended.
same with your spire idea; both are interesting but would require a rework of extended which in turn would be balance issues galore.
still thank you for the ideas and im glad you got them out

oh extras
i assume you mean RR:Expand and reduction to potency not duration :P again interesting but working off 200% is a bit cheaty in dual play, 100% for 2 targets is the same as using 2 cards. OP PLZ NERF.
A sect change is interesting and its probed alot, and there would have to be some drawback yes, thought what who knows. maybe this will be something in 4.0
Diurnal, 95% sure it did this in 3.0 before they outright ruduced AST MP costs by 5% anyway. so a 10% overall reduction vs others for same potency healing? might be a bit much.
I like the Noct idea though, its small enough a change its not bordering OP but good enough it may warrant more Noct play if you like to DPS.

still, ty for all this, its interesting to see ideas.

@AlphaSonic
I considered an agro dump, but imo adding such a thing onto CU is giving 1 skill A LOT of stuff.
Maybe add an agro dump onto CO though....
25% chopped off sounds good [since we have the reduced effect from LA, if we had much more than 25% WHM would scream about enroaching on Shroud to much]

actually yeah, 25% emnity dump added to CO would be good...

[Ghishlain]

Obligatory question about Gravity from me: would you prefer Gravity to have slow at the cost of 25% more MP? Right now Gravity gets the added effect of costing 20% less MP compared to Holy and I imagine you'd end up losing it when you add a heavy effect to Gravity. Thematically it makes sense but would you be willing to take the MP cut for balance sake?

[LDR]

Obligatory question about Gravity from me: would you prefer Gravity to have slow at the cost of 25% more MP? Right now Gravity gets the added effect of costing 20% less MP compared to Holy and I imagine you'd end up losing it when you add a heavy effect to Gravity. Thematically it makes sense but would you be willing to take the MP cut for balance sake?

Cue neglegence on my part, i honestly didnt look about MP cost vs Holy.

Honestly Grav is fine as is, it was just a thematical "surely it should do x"
from a balance point thought if they were to add heavy as an effect then id definately expect it to cost more MP. as to whether it would cost the same as Holy, not sure, personally i find Stun to be a more potent up front effect vs heavy, so maybe 5% less MP cost than Holy?

still, good call; if i ever make towards wanting AST changes ill make double sure to cross reference costs etc

[Shurrikhan]

@Shurrikhan I've seen that idea for Gravity before, would be rather cool tbh. although i think personally id prefer such an effect on a new skill, akin to a time rift/black hole. new skill at 70?
Also i i feel on loosing combust 2 sub 50, its a real 50/50 on AOE vs more ST DoTs
Card ideas oh i love reading these.
Bole is interesting, though personally id rather not have more than 1 affect per card, and i really wouldnt like a technical buff to heals gated to rng draws. still, interesting.
Ewer is interesting but sadly, wont work. Card buffs have to synergise with all RR effects; how would Ewer work with Extended if it auto drops after 20%? Enhanced would raise the cap to 30% while expanded would take it to 10% but AoE. Extended becomes null.
thats the big issue with card changes, they have to work with all RR buffs and if we make a move to add 2 or more effects per thing it could get hopelessly convulted. i once toyed with the idea of making ewer/spire work like invigorate giving a instant flat return but again, doesnt work with extended.
same with your spire idea; both are interesting but would require a rework of extended which in turn would be balance issues galore.
still thank you for the ideas and im glad you got them out

oh extras
i assume you mean RR:Expand and reduction to potency not duration :P again interesting but working off 200% is a bit cheaty in dual play, 100% for 2 targets is the same as using 2 cards. OP PLZ NERF.
A sect change is interesting and its probed alot, and there would have to be some drawback yes, thought what who knows. maybe this will be something in 4.0
Diurnal, 95% sure it did this in 3.0 before they outright reduced AST MP costs by 5% anyway. so a 10% overall reduction vs others for same potency healing? might be a bit much.
I like the Noct idea though, its small enough a change its not bordering OP but good enough it may warrant more Noct play if you like to DPS.

still, ty for all this, its interesting to see ideas.

I'd imagine Extended Ewer/Spire would basically have to double the total MP gain possible as well as the duration, or, if Ewer appeared as two buffs (mana regen and mana cost reduction, seperately) drop only the mana cost reduction.

And yeah, I meant effectiveness, not duration, sorry.

Forgot that they reduced all mana costs by 5%. Thought Lightspeed's added MP cost reduction and changing Ewer to a MP refresh instead of a cost reduction was all they got. If that's the case though, I honestly would have preferred to see the default costs unchanged, and that reduction built into Diurnal instead, to keep mana efficiency equal across both Sects (especially give that Nocturnal would then also affect offensive casts, and would be more powerful for DoTs).

[Ghishlain]

Cue neglegence on my part, i honestly didnt look about MP cost vs Holy.

Honestly Grav is fine as is, it was just a thematical "surely it should do x"
from a balance point thought if they were to add heavy as an effect then id definately expect it to cost more MP. as to whether it would cost the same as Holy, not sure, personally i find Stun to be a more potent up front effect vs heavy, so maybe 5% less MP cost than Holy?

still, good call; if i ever make towards wanting AST changes ill make double sure to cross reference costs etc

All good just thought I'd ask since most players don't realize that subtle difference and you aren't the first and most certainly won't be the last~

I can go for the 5% reduction from bade Holy mp-cost for an en- effect if it were to happen.