Yet another "AST Tweaks" Thread

[Ghishlain]

Cue neglegence on my part, i honestly didnt look about MP cost vs Holy.

Honestly Grav is fine as is, it was just a thematical "surely it should do x"
from a balance point thought if they were to add heavy as an effect then id definately expect it to cost more MP. as to whether it would cost the same as Holy, not sure, personally i find Stun to be a more potent up front effect vs heavy, so maybe 5% less MP cost than Holy?

still, good call; if i ever make towards wanting AST changes ill make double sure to cross reference costs etc

All good just thought I'd ask since most players don't realize that subtle difference and you aren't the first and most certainly won't be the last~

I can go for the 5% reduction from bade Holy mp-cost for an en- effect if it were to happen.

[Ashelia_Ferron]

The 5% less cost of Gravity isn't because it has no effect, it's because AST spells are just cheaper from back when they had lower potency on their cures.

Benefic 1 and Cure 1 do the same healing, but AST is cheaper. There used to be reason for it being cheaper but 3.07 buffed the potencies without touching the MP cost

[MidnightTundra]

The 5% less cost of Gravity isn't because it has no effect, it's because AST spells are just cheaper from back when they had lower potency on their cures.

Benefic 1 and Cure 1 do the same healing, but AST is cheaper. There used to be reason for it being cheaper but 3.07 buffed the potencies without touching the MP cost

I'd argue that this is in fact the reason why Gravity is cheaper. In the realm of ASTs (few) DPS spells, their potencies are in line with their MP costs relative to the other two healers. Malefic II is the same cost of Stone III/Broil. Combust II is stronger than Bio II and it has a higher cost than Bio II. Stella is the same cost of Miamsa but Stella is outside the normal damage rotation. The only odd one is Gravity.

Gravity has been the same since AST's launch but its mp cost is lower than Holy, It has the same potency of Holy but it is missing an effect therefore, a lower mp cost is justified. If they were to give Gravity like a Slow or Stun, I'm sure they'd raise the MP cost as well.

[Mutemutt]

Gravity has been the same since AST's launch but its mp cost is lower than Holy, It has the same potency of Holy but it is missing an effect therefore, a lower mp cost is justified. If they were to give Gravity like a Slow or Stun, I'm sure they'd raise the MP cost as well.

I could understand a higher price point for an effect that was actually useful in most pve content like slow (attack speed debuff, that is) and stun, but not for gravity as OP suggested. Higher mp for a heavy effect would just be a nerf to gravity for the sake of formalities rather than a counterbalance to keep things in check. I'd honestly still take a heavy effect for higher mp cost because I just like the idea of a gravity based attack making things heavier that much, but I wouldn't agree with the thought that the mp price hike was needed.

[MidnightTundra]

snip

The slow I was speaking of was similar to Feint not the OP's suggestion to add heavy onto Gravity. I'd take an MP cost nerf if they threw Feint's effect on Gravity but I sort of agree with you; I don't feel like the MP cost should be nerfed. I just feel like if they were to do that, they'd most likely adjust the MP cost as well.

Outside of A3S, Pvp and the old T7, heavy is kind of useless tbh. I'm not sure why people want it on Gravity.

[Mutemutt]

Obligatory question about Gravity from me: would you prefer Gravity to have slow at the cost of 25% more MP? Right now Gravity gets the added effect of costing 20% less MP compared to Holy and I imagine you'd end up losing it when you add a heavy effect to Gravity. Thematically it makes sense but would you be willing to take the MP cut for balance sake?

Well, astrologian spells are just cheaper in general even when it's essentially (or exactly) the same in effect as the other healers' counterparts. Plus, heavy is nowhere near as useful in pve stuff as holy which is probably the only place where you'd spam either of these skills enough for mp cost to even matter and most enemies in your average dungeon run are outright immune to heavy anyway I believe.

An aoe heavy would be great for pvp, though in that situation mp is not a huge problem so far. Without cleric stance, there isn't much reason to spam holy, and there will be even less reason to spam gravity given that you're aiming to just inflict heavy on a bunch of people simultaneously. Not sure how it'll fare in the new mode coming out but my experience so far is that most fights don't last long enough for you to run dry especially given you get another skill to regain mp. And that's ignoring that fact that bard and machinist also got another pvp skill that instantly restores some mp to everyone in range; never seen anyone use that, never seen anyone have to.

[Ghishlain]

Just a small thing to add since MP cost is bring brought up a lot. Almost all the healing spells in the AST kit has a cheaper MP cost versus their equivalent. This MP cost reduction is usually 10% outside of a few exceptions. Benefic is actually 20% cheaper and Aspected Benefic is actually more expensive when compared to Regen in Diurnal (and much cheaper than Adlo when compared to Nocturnal).

The only outlier in the DPS skill tree that is present is Gravity for reasons stated above.

I feel the reason this happened initially was stated earlier - AST spells were generally 5% less potent at its launch and the mp cost reduction was to help balance that. Lower potency isn't the case any longer though.

[NamoNanamo]

Yes, we got range and it cost less mp but we don't have stun (that's why it cost lower imo).
My problem with Gravity is that you NEED to target to use the spell.

So you can't precast AND you lose some time :
- While you are trying to lock the good one cause your radius is small or you got too many ennemies.
- While you are casting gravity and the add die before you finish the cast. So you always need to switch and lose some time.
Imho, Holy is far better and mana efficient due to its radius/precast/no target mode.

And even if they nerf the range, it's a good trade. I don't really need 25 Y when most of the time, I'm 15y(or less) away from mate/ennemies.
Don't forget that Astro need to be close to allies if you want to buff them. (Helios/Aspected helios/CO/CU/AOE card)