The Price History in the New Market System Needs to be a Lot More Than 20

[Rentahamster]

The price history needs to go a lot further than the past 20 auctions in order to prevent price manipulation.

Blue Gartr Interview:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107497-FFXIV-Naoki-Yoshida-Interview-Transcription

some of the major changes we will be making includes a more advanced player search and to get a market system as close to the Final Fantasy XI auction house as possible. This would be where you could search for an item, and then buy that item, or see the past 20 auctions.

While having a price history is great, and a very good first step, you can't stop with only 20.

With such a limited history, goods can be repeatedly bought and sold for non-market value prices on purpose by a player or group of players in order to artificially inflate the price of a particular good.

For example:

Say an Iron Axe is normally sold at the wards for about 10,000 gil. Anyone checking the price history could see that the past 20 axes have been sold for around 10,000 gil. However, I come in and repeatedly buy and sell the axe using a friend or an alt for 25,000 gil 20 times. I then list all my Iron Axes for sale at 25,000 and any new buyers and sellers looking at the price history think that the axe is worth 25,000 gil when it really isn't.

This was somewhat of a problem in FF11, and it can potentially be a problem in FF14.


There are a few differences and safeguards, however. I assume that the item search will still be around so that people can see the actual prices that the players are listing their items, so if the price history shows a history of overpriced sales, but someone still lists their item at the normal price, then there's nothing stopping the customer from getting to that purchase.

This is better than the FF11 auction house because the ambiguous "auction" part of the transaction is eliminated, which cuts out another avenue for price manipulation due to customer ignorance.

When I see this quote:

to get a market system as close to the Final Fantasy XI auction house as possible.

I hope that it just doesn't carry over the features that made price manipulation possible.

I would keep item search, let people buy items directly from the item search menu, and then implement a price history that goes back for an entire month, at least.

[Reinheart]

I said it in the JP side but hope they change this... I'm for AH system but FFXI's AH system imo sucked.

[Physic]

meh to price histories as a whole. usually leads to more problems then it solves.

[Rentahamster]

meh to price histories as a whole. usually leads to more problems then it solves.

How so?

From my point of view, it adds to more functionality and easier access to economic participation.

[Physic]

How so?

From my point of view, it adds to more functionality and easier access to economic participation.

The only thing price history offers, is a quick way to see what items may be worth right now. However, being able to see every price that ever was generally leads to a downward spiral of pricing, especially when you dont have blind bidding.

Undercutting is the only way to compete, and so prices get insanely low, until people stop selling the item, but even when they do, they are still effected by the old price. At least now, when all of an item sells out, its up to the players to decided thier worth selling and buying. I have seen in the current system some items spike down, due to short term forces, then spike back up, to apparently closer to their actual worth, its a lot slower with price histories.

All it does is give newbs to selling their item a price point when no one else is selling the item, is that really worth the hassle? I really see a very limited advantage to it.

[Reinheart]

I kind of wanted more of DDO type auction, heard WoW had similar one but better features.
If the item is up on the market you can try to compare/compete with that price but if there is none up on the auction you as a seller have to decide what the value is since it doesn't show any history. If you're not watching the market carefully you may sell the item say 100k item for 20k or on the other hand if you are a buyer and not watching the market carefully you will spend more on something when the average is much lower, if the item is a regularly circulated item the price will stay unless some noob undercuts but again if at any point that item stops showing up on the market due to server resets and stuff the auction starts again from default, or another price unless person selling puts it up for the same undercut price.... hope you can understand what I'm trying to explain lol

[AngryNixon]

The more information the merrier.

[Blarp]

Every MMO should just copy and paste EVE Online's market system. It is, by far, the most comprehensive economy I've ever seen in an MMO. It is truly amazing the amount of information you can gather, and understanding/exploiting it can make you e-rich very quickly. I really see no problem with economic manipulation, but I understand the concern. I will say that it takes far more patience, dedication, and risk to participate in economic PVP than going into an instance and slaying a dragon. You can literally risk everything and become massively wealthy overnight, or lose everything you've worked for in a few hours.

[zaviermhigo]

I'm all for price transparency and blah blah blah, but I put up my crap on my retainer before I go to bed, and by the time I wake up in the morning, nothing has sold because people decided to undercut 4k or more less. I'm not talking about materia and crap, I'm talking gathered items and such. Inflation is a problem, but you guys also forget deflation isn't healthy either, then no one can make money, not even people who just want to get on and sell a few things.

[Roaran]

With such a limited history, goods can be repeatedly bought and sold for non-market value prices on purpose by a player or group of players in order to artificially inflate the price of a particular good.

For example:

Say an Iron Axe is normally sold at the wards for about 10,000 gil. Anyone checking the price history could see that the past 20 axes have been sold for around 10,000 gil. However, I come in and repeatedly buy and sell the axe using a friend or an alt for 25,000 gil 20 times. I then list all my Iron Axes for sale at 25,000 and any new buyers and sellers looking at the price history think that the axe is worth 25,000 gil when it really isn't.

This was somewhat of a problem in FF11, and it can potentially be a problem in FF14.


This is better than the FF11 auction house because the ambiguous "auction" part of the transaction is eliminated, which cuts out another avenue for price manipulation due to customer ignorance.

There's one problem with this. When someone sells axes at 10,000 gil, that is the price the producer/supplier is willing to sell at. If there are 10 axes, and 15 people willing to purchase the axes, the price is low. Ten players will benefit from the lower price, and 5 people will lose out. Some of those 5 people may have valued those axes at a higher price, and would have been willing to pay a higher price. The supplier is the one who is ignorant of their customers, and because of this, some of the axes go to the players who 'got there first' rather than the players who valued them the most.

When a player purchases these axes and then bids the price up, they are actually ensuring that those axes first go to those players who place the highest value on them. And by doing so, actually help facilitate the economy.

In a free market, NO ABUSE CAN TAKE PLACE. Because the transactions are all voluntary, you can simply avoid purchasing. If, for example, there's only one axe available for your level and you absolutely need it to continue, then rather than being gouged, the person buying and bidding up the prices is actually helping you by ensuring that noone who places a lesser value on the axes purchases them before you. If the price is too high for anyone, then the person bidding up items might lose gil, so there is a built-in incentive to prevent that.

Price histories can be both good and bad. But they can't be abused in a free market. The good is, you can see in the past how much something was worth and you can make a decision on whether to buy now or wait. They can be bad, because it can alter the perception of some people and promote more arbitrary prices instead, as it does not reflect current circumstances of the market. An example would be, one of the main crafters of a server is very effecient at producing axes and has mass produced them at a low price for several months. Suddenly he quits, and now the only remaining crafters available cannot make the item for so low. Naturally the price should rise, but the price history would make players less likely to purchase at the new value, and would also prevent some crafters from supplying at the new value.