The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Judah_Brandt]

I agree I said exactly this repeatedly in this thread. That it would be way better to have it at 50.

The only way that Square can actively gauge the amount of time you put into the game with relative certainty is by assumptive minutes. Like, the amount of time it takes to complete a dungeon, the amount of time it takes to level to 60, the amount of time it takes to accrue the required commendations etc. They have all of these metrics. They couldn't base it off of play time, because the guy who logs in and sits in his tree house roleplaying an Ice Wizard could have logged 5000 hours.

It isn't an argument of whether the person at level 50 or level 60 know the same things, it is an argument of safe assumption that the player with the level 60 jobs has accrued more knowledge through playing longer. Whether that is a fact or not is irrelevant.

You keep beating this drum that you can know things without havng met these requirements. Sure you can. SE doesn't know that. They aren't going to administer some arbitrary field exam where you have to know which level what class learns Provoke (it's Gladiator level 22 I'm going to be such a good mentor).

You're on here begging to be validated for your knowledge in spite of the logical criteria that they are implementing, which honestly isn't even that exclusive. Just make a paper crown for yourself to wear until you earn the real one in game, and we're all good.

[Toguro]

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That assumption on their part would be worth more if it were applied to a Level 50+ Mentoring and Lv60 Mentoring system.

Not something as low and early as lv1-40 for example.

The level 50 life is a long one. There's the whole 2.55 story




I only say things like that when people keep using the thought of "See you don't know anything" to support their argument AGAINST me

[Judah_Brandt]

That assumption on their part would be worth more if it were applied to a Level 50+ Mentoring and Lv60 Mentoring system.

Not something as low and early as lv1-40 for example.

The level 50 life is a long one. There's the whole 2.55 story




I only say things like that when people keep using the thought of "See you don't know anything" to support their argument AGAINST me

Not when the Heavensward content has been out for over 8 months and there is very little focus on doing any of the level 50 content. Level 50 is a bad metric. Sorry, it just is.

Now I do, however, agree that it'd be functional to extend the mentoring linkshell, except for the fact that then you're virtually segregating the community into even more pieces and literally fostering an elitist mentality by promoting a game-long training wheels program.

[Toguro]

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There is little focus on ARR content yet when players speed through Heavensward they go back to ARR and have to learn the life of level 50. Which is "skippable" but at the same time "unavoidable"..

As I said before there's the leveling life, level 50 life, and level 60 life. Its inescapable. The players will eventually go back to level 50 stuff. Heavensward is 8 months old but all the stuff is in ARR still.



Also, toxicity/elitism/<insertname>'s are found everywhere regardless of level

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/67805...eborn/73305269

Thread going on right now about a player being kicked from Sastasha for parsing low.

Getting 50 is like a new game. Getting 60? Not so much. Is what I mean.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Words

1. Regardless of who meets the requirements we both share information that can help new players out. Also not every level 60 knows about showing health as a percent or extended cross bar functionality because they don't explain or show it in any text box, nor do they show how to bring up the virtual mouse on the ps4 or go into screenshot mode, I've helped many past and present fc members use these functions. A few of them being level 60 and not knowing how to properly fit all HW skills on their crossbar.

2. Again basic information in a basic information linkshell. It would be a bad mentoring job if I threw level 60 endgame knowledge down the mouth of a new player who has no idea where all the aetherytes are at in Limsa. I never stated I wouldn't show them, but rather focus on how the game plays at level 32 Brayflox Longstop verse the 28 levels later TEX, since you know TEX isn't relevant at level 32. While that information might be beneficial to some players it's still irrelevant for 28 more levels and has zero impact on the game until then. At this point players just got their jobs and shouldn't be worrying at all about content down the road but instead the mechanics of how to handle the boss of Brayflox.

3. Within 40 hours they will likely determine they don't like the game, get picked up by a fc, maybe even mine or join a linkshell. I never stated I wouldn't keep in contact with them. That is you using your own thoughts and deductions.

4. Except me teaching you how to play isn't selfless or kind. It's work, it's working on the betterment of myself as a player and for the betterment of the community. If SE thought of it like you then they wouldn't put rewards into the system to start with.

[Judah_Brandt]

There is little focus on ARR content yet when players speed through Heavensward they go back to ARR and have to learn the life of level 50. Which is "skippable" but at the same time "unavoidable"..

As I said before there's the leveling life, level 50 life, and level 60 life. Its inescapable. The players will eventually go back to level 50 stuff. Heavensward is 8 months old but all the stuff is in ARR still.



Also, toxicity/elitism/<insertname>'s are found everywhere regardless of level

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/67805...eborn/73305269

Thread going on right now about a player being kicked from Sastasha for parsing low.

Getting 50 is like a new game. Getting 60? Not so much. Is what I mean.

Have you read that thread? It's hilarious. All that fuss over Sastasha and a 10 potency difference lol. I mean it's not like *start sarcasm* A DAMNED NINJA USING SINGLE TARGET DOTON OMG UNINSTALL THE GAME. *end sarcasm*

Just kidding.

Elitism exists. Biased elitism exists. Elitism elitism exists. It's annoying, and it sucks, and it makes me wish I had more than two hundred spaces on my Blacklist or that I could put an ad out in an Eorzean newspaper detailing why a certain person was such an a-hole. Unfortunately I can't do that, and if I could do that I'd be no better. Only thing I can do is try and make the game as pleasant for other players as I can. I ran Garuda Extreme twenty-eight times today, and I didn't even need a pony. Why? A guy in a linkshell asked me to. Now he has a sweet war panther mount and owes me 27 favors, but I just did it because he asked for help. Except they don't make threads about things like that, much like the news doesn't report all of the good in the world. The bad seems prevalent because it grabs our attention. I'm off on a tangent now.

Can we all just agree to wait and see whether this is a catastrophe or not until it's an actual thing? Who knows maybe the participation will be low and they'll lighten the requirements.

[MeiUshu]

Have you read that thread? It's hilarious. All that fuss over Sastasha and a 10 potency difference lol. I mean it's not like A DAMNED NINJA USING SINGLE TARGET DOTON OMG UNINSTALL THE GAME.

Just kidding.

your words are sarcasm right ? especially on this thread, tell is scarcams because I cant identify it as such wouldnt make a mistake, never know

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Toguro, I get what you're implying, but there's a big disconnect in there somewhere.

It seems like you're saying that being max level as a requirement won't do much for a new player, or before they hit the milestone of 50. This is untrue. It's almost as if saying that the total sum of experience one should have at 60 would be of less value than what they have at 50 because of a new player's perspective. Yes, a newer player won't necessarily be tasked to have to mind certain skills/situations pre-50, at 50, and beyond that. But the road to those milestones is effectively structured to allow players more than enough room to grow into their roles and skills. There, is where each player is personally accountable. The guy who rushes to 50 is still going to have to learn the same things, but would now feel the pressure of expectation at 50 vs leveling. A mentor who has been through this perhaps, and learned the hard way would be of value if only to help teach what not to do.

Add to that, any effective coach or instructor knows how to gauge and meter what they teach. In instructing FC members on how to play MCH, I explained basics and some of the less clear things to them to start with. Never mentioned Wildfire until they got it. Or turrets. Or Hypercharge and the effects it has on turrets. Why? Because it would have done them no good at that point. You're right that a newer player won't take much from say, mastery of DRG rotation with Blood of the Dragon, or effective use of defensive cooldowns they wouldn't yet have, but this is almost like saying mentorship just ends at the 40 hour mark. It doesn't. At least it shouldn't. I said it elsewhere before, but even with my DRK and PLD at 60, and working on WAR finally, I still seek out the person whom I chose as my tanking mentor even now. Not because I'm bad, but because she's that good. What I couldn't figure out for myself, I would then ask her once it was relevant (i.e. I didn't ask anything about Dark Arts usage or the like until I had it). Again, this doesn't invalidate her knowledge as a mentor simply because I couldn't utilize some of the skills or knowledge she has yet. And that's what some of us are saying. Also consider that the bar is set at 60 because say a new player decides they want to fast track themselves to the top; now they've got a bunch of skills and questions that, if the mentor were perhaps still at, say 54, wouldn't be as able to help with.

It's a cruel metaphor to use, but it's like asking if you wanted Y'shtola to teach you to heal, or Edda?

[BlatantPyre]

I mostly agree with you. It's true that some players<...>some of these questions will go unanswered.

The only way that Square can actively...<and the rest>

Not when the Heavensward content has been out for over<...>fostering an elitist mentality by promoting a game-long training wheels program.

There we go..ya plugged all the holes! Alright, now to get to my real point... ; D


Toguro, I understand why you started this thread, and I can see the reason behind many of the things you've pointed out. In looking at both sides though, I want you to realize something - these requirements are not meant to bar anyone from becoming a mentor, but are there to weed out those who really shouldn't be. NO, it's not perfect, I understand why you think some of them are redonkulous, but I think you're missing why they're redonkulous - SE wants people who have reached endgame to be mentors, not just people who can be (and before anyone yells at me about my supposed "complaints" prior to this, lemme give ya reason to do so: I intended for others to counter my points. Odett and Judah simply came the closest, so I, er...nudged 'em, and played devil's advocate. I know, I'm a stinker. [though I really didn't catch Judah's sarcasm, let's not talk about that...<er-hem>]). I'm sure you will eventually be able to have access to this system (and so will I, through crafting), but if you haven't yet reached these requirements, don't you want to enjoy what content there is left for you to play first, before having new players constantly asking you questions? You will still be able to help new players as is, but at least this way you won't be distracted from your own endeavors constantly in order to do so. Like I said, I help people already, but to be honest, I'm glad I won't be able to have access to this system yet - it's something to look forward to after I get all my shtuff done!

I'm sorry if this seemed deceptive, in truth it was, but this topic is a little more delicate than most, not really a "black-and-white" thing, so I felt a different approach was necessary, especially since a lot of OP's argument comes from a passionate stand point, one that I think most people who are against, if they saw where he's coming from, would understand. Really, a lot of what has been said against him has been just to spite him, and that's not really very cool...in fact, I find it "salty".

But Toguro, be honest with me...is it really because you won't be able to access it right off the bat that you started this thread? Remember, I won't be able to either, but is it really a problem? I was kinda hopin' Judah would've said more on the "elite" subject <edit: apparently he did while I was writing this, huzzah!>, pointing out that those who really want to be mentor's will be there to counter any trolling but...we really should put this to bed now, don't you agree?

So, without being too snarky:

300 Commendations requirement - there as a filter for trolls. Perfect? Nope. But a lower requirement will be easier for anyone intending to abuse this system to grind through...

3 roles requirement - alright, even Toguro has accepted that having knowledge of the trinity from a high-end stand point is necessary, let's not berate him over this anymore. The House of Novices will also help in teaching new players these things, but having someone who gets the symbiosis of the three roles will really help with the current lack of knowledge, and therefore horrible expectations, that people currently have.

Lvl 60 requirement - okay, Odett finally nailed this one appropriately, albeit indirectly, but to put it more succinctly: SE wants people who have the time to be mentors to be mentors. Lvl 50 players have an entire expansion to play through (it's not about getting people to pay for it...). So, it's not about the experience a lvl 60 player brings to fore over a lvl 50 player, it's about the fact they have more time to devote to being a mentor than a lvl 50 player. Judah's right, though, it is more likely that a lvl 60 player will have more all around experience...does that mean lvl 50s don't? Of course not, but SE needs this to be fool-proof, and the probability, again, is with people in current endgame.

1000 dungeon requirement - specifically for players who have been in endgame for a while. Also meant to weed out trolls (few have the patience to grind out 1000 dungeons just to mess with new players, just sayin'...). Again, shows they intend players who have little else to do left besides the daily grind to become mentors. Also to show that mentors have abundant dealings not only in dungeons, but parties, including but not limited to: trolls, dealing with new players in late dungeons, different mechanics, trolls, different playstyles, teaching said mechanics/knowing how to talk to different playstyles, trolls, playing different duty content and how to deal with them, and trolls...it's almost like they expect people to abuse this system, and want the real mentors adequately equipped to counter it...hmmmmm...okay, sorry, I said I'd leave out snarkiness....

Toguro, you will be able to be a mentor eventually, but it's not life or death right out of the gate. The requirements are steep, but they need to be. Yes, pride is going to come into play here, it always does, doesn't it? I don't know where you are in the grand scheme of the game, but just be patient, and if I'm to give you any sound advice at all, don't focus on grinding for this, you'll get there eventually. Just keep doin' what you're doin', help people where you can, and enjoy the game! And now to post this and find you all have already posted a shite ton, back and forth...<sigh>

[Judah_Brandt]

I think I said something along those lines back on like page ten, that players who are elitists aren't going to bother with a system they view as arbitrary. I'll double check and edit this with a quote later.

It was page 14. Why have we been at this so long.