The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Reisui]

I think this system will crash and burn very fast and in a very unapologetical way. As it has been stated under no circumstances does someone who wants to play as a career BLM need to know about the tanking process or a tank needing to know how to play as a SMN. The restriction on needing all 3 areas of war at 60 has to be the biggest joke I've heard, not only does it blatantly tell people they're not good enough it's playing off a false sense of experience being level 60. But sadly, there are people on this website that defend this idea, these same people who are oblivious to the fact this website has a massive thread about the horrible player interactions they've experienced in the game at all levels possible in the duty finder. I seriously don't think I'll ever understand this community.

Instead of making this horrible idea horrible they could have done it so much better by paring players who pick the starter class for each job and pair them with it's respective job. So if you wanted to MNK you pick PUG you'd only be mentored by a MNK. Given you only have 40 hours to mentor this player they're not going to even fully grasp ALL 3 areas of war in this game by the time they get their 30 job. At that point the player being mentored should have been through enough dungeons and fates plus played the cross class requirement for the job to have a understanding on how the game is played at that particular time.

You see this system wrongly, it's not about learning everything of the class/job they took, but a general aspect of the game. Also, if we go by your rule, how will healers and tanks help new healers and tanks in dungeons? If you go in a dungeon as a heal, you cannot mentor another healer, since he's not there.

And I think that you need to know at-least the basics of every role, how could you function well in a group. A MNK having a tank that always moves must be so hateful right? But if that tank never played a DPS role, he cannot really know there are positionals, he doesn't know what pain it is if the tank always move.

[RyuRoots]

snip

Oh look, another player who doesn't meet the reqs and thinks the reqs are horrible. I'm seeing a recurring pattern. Why you need all three roles has been explained repeatedly, and if you still don't get it then no amount of tutoring can help you at this point. I also have no idea how you somehow take "people have bad experiences in Duty Finder" and end up with that inexplicably invalidating the mentor system requiring high level (and thus, generally experienced) players. I also have to laugh at "blatantly tell people they're not good enough". Insecure much? Only as much as you're "not good enough" to run Gubal Library at level 41. It's the bar they set, and you meet it or you don't. Seriously though, just...think about it for a minute. ACTUALLY think about it, the role requirement thing. If you tried that instead of just telling yourself how right you are about your anger, maybe you'd understand what people are telling you.

[Launched]

The requirements aren't strict enough. I wouldn't trust a fresh 60 PLD/WHM to teach someone how to heal or tank properly. Should need i205+ on all 3 roles and be able to beat the hardest dummy DPS check on them all. Yes, including healers, because new healers should be taught to DPS too.

[Reisui]

The requirements aren't strict enough. I wouldn't trust a fresh 60 PLD/WHM to teach someone how to heal or tank properly. Should need i205+ on all 3 roles and be able to beat the hardest dummy DPS check on them all. Yes, including healers, because new healers should be taught to DPS too.

There is no Dummy for healers I think

[Kurogaea]

I started this game 2 years ago and played pretty much everyday I could (quite tired of the game actually). So I have around 2,822 dungeon completions in a 2 year span, 2040 commendations, and In my spare time leveled my Blm to 60 (quest sucked more than I expected) My whm was my first to get to 60 since its my main (hate padjals besides the queen lady), and the dark knight was my latest 60 (OMG DO THIS QUEST ITS GENIUS!).

Just choose what you like most and roll with it concerning the dps, healer and and tank. (smn is actually easier and should give you both dps and healer if you do both class quests, but you only leveled up once.

The dungeon runs are most likely the result of trial farming for relic (2.0) and pony farms.

Comms happen randomly though as healer main I got more pretty often. I tanked very few dungeons (as I hate it and its annoying) but get comms pretty normally too. Dps, not so much.

[Whiteroom]

well if you prefer to see it as al shiney and stuff by all means be my guest. But dont come here and tell me that mentor is only meant the way YOU see it (or understand it), is not the case, when you mentor, is not only telling where to find a gear or stuff like that, is far more then that. This mentorship in essence good, is not all shiney as YOU want to make it. There is far more involved into then *just* this or that.

As for my example, it was only there to show that if someone lvl 60 with all the requirements needed to teach according to what was set forth is not understanding what he is supposed to do as basic , and that person could teach another as per requirements, you do realize right the problem? or you dont ? and dont tell me is not the case and etct..because as you see it exists and nothing prevents them to teach with the new system and so make of a newby as in new an incompetent in turn, ebcasue that one happened to have trusted that SMN that had that title above his head.

So please refrain from telling someone NOT of your vision that he doesnt understand I do, I just dont believe is the solution to all problems, quite the contrary. Besides why do we have a Mentor roulette ? you mean to say is the incentive? I hope not technically is meant to help newb in a real setting by giving advice and teach them IN the dungeon, right? otherwise what is the point of having a Mentor roulette yes? well I sure hope it wont be the SMN I met taht is the mentor in such a dungeon, dont you agree ?

Anyway, we will just agree to disagree...as you and me arent in the same page about this. For me it is flawed not in the intend but because of the community as a whole. There are exceptions, but they are rare and those are not on public place they dont need a stage (understand title). they proceed to do and contribute to the overall betterment, when you need atitle to do something for the community or the good of the community, and before that you never bothered, tehre is somethign wrong isnt there ?.

again Rei, you see it that way I dont, how hard is it to understand that I dont agree with your vision of this same as you dont agree with mine

I dont believe most will not use it for the title, I believe is THE CONTRARY, most will use it for the shiney title rather then for the best of the community, read MOST (not all in case is not clear enough). That is why you and me differ and where you see all nice and shiney, I see problems not to mention those that find it coold and inflates their ego, but in the end those that will be at the receiving end will be unaware of most of this and be taught showned maybe the wrong things, because the Mentor title gives to the Mentors the *power* to impose sort of the fact that THEY know better and therefore the rest MUST listen to it and by that it escalâtes. I cant see anything good in this system..I just cant, sorry

So yeah we agree to disagree as for now neither you or me can say with absolute certainty what the outcome will be, in time only we will know for now we only can speculate on how good or bad this will be. I stand behind my opinion until proven the contrary and so far nothing said in here disgress me from what I believe, can change I hope I wrong, I WANT to be wrong, yep I so WANT to be wrong.

Your post shows you have clearly misunderstood almost every thing I have said. And whats with all the "shiny"? Do you honestly care that much about titles, that you think people will really want this one?

At this point I want to chalk up your misunderstanding to a language barrier, but I really get the feeling you think you are the only one capable of seeing flaws in a system, and that we are too stupid for that. (Despite the fact that numerous flaws have been pointed out)

What you really can't seem to grasp is that a system cant be perfect in a game of this size, nor does it need to be to have a positive effect. Tell me something, where do new players get help from now? Are you the only one out there helping? Or do they get their info from all the same sources as the mentor system, but without the filters in place to make it a little better? Or worse yet, they don't get it at all.

Why do you think there are so many of these people you are afraid of teaching, past the level 50 point anyway? They got their info from the same method you seem to be championing (meaning no system), so it's working right?

But I understand that the concept of giving people a method of finding help is terrible to the core right? Enough to be referred to as "pandoras box"...

Also, what makes you think SMN you dislike is not out there "helping" people right now.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I helped before before it was cool.

In all seriousness, I helped people in the past, so the mentor system will just make it easier for me to get paired up with people seeking help. Get cracking on the requirements if you really want to be an official mentor, but nothing should stop you from helping anyway. You'd think people wanting to be a mentor so badly would have tried the Leveling Roulette where most of the first timers are at, but alas...

[Odett]

I helped before before it was cool.

In all seriousness, I helped people in the past, so the mentor system will just make it easier for me to get paired up with people seeking help. Get cracking on the requirements if you really want to be an official mentor, but nothing should stop you from helping anyway. You'd think people wanting to be a mentor so badly would have tried the Leveling Roulette where most of the first timers are at, but alas...

I get what you mean, but (unless I misunderstood you) if you want to give out advice, it's a lot easier when you play with people that want advice. Queuing into leveling roulette and getting Qarn, for example, and telling the healer "hey, you don't have to heal me every time I fall under 90% HP. Feel free to DPS and heal me after I reach 50% or 40%", or the NIN "Your Kiss of the Wasp does more damage than Viper at this level because of your lv 35 trait", telling the DRG to use Heavy Thrust, or the BLM not to spam Fire 3, and so on sometimes doesn't end well if the advice is unsolicited due to some people being extremely defensive.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I challenge the idea that learning a different role won't do anything for anyone other than that given role.

Scenario:
DRK, BLM, MCH, WHM, Tank dies, WHM's Swiftcast is on CD. BLM was 2nd on hate and is positioned next to the healer.

BLM: They're coming for me. The tank had them gathered around the MCH's Bishop turret. I should move into the tank's position until the WHM can get him up. I still have Stoneskin, but that won't last long. Should I Manawall? The one the tank was attacking is nearly dead and going for the healer, but it's not so big a threat. The MCH can finish it off, let me get the rest.

MCH: Tank's down and they're getting away from my turret. One is nearly dead, I should be fine to DoT and Blank it away from the healer. BLM's gotta pseudo tank now. Let me Hypercharge and lend some AoE support. Tank's also gonna need some TP when he's up. He's a DRK so he ought to be able to handle his own MP, but I'll keep an eye out and switch when I have to.

WHM: Dammit, bad time to Swiftcast Holy. I didn't see he used Blood Price so he ran out of MP and couldn't mitigate as well. The BLM has hate, good he's moving them away from me back to the turret. And the MCH just finished off the weak one. Let me put down an Asylum, give the BLM a Regen, and Raise the tank.

^Pretty extreme scenario, but if they were ignorant of each other's roles/abilities, that situation would be a guaranteed wipe. With that awareness however, they can at least attempt to control the situation.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

words

While those are good advice to give, I mostly see people struggle with mechanics and gimmicks against bosses, so it's a matter of telling them what they should be doing and doing it. Remember, it's not just rotations or not used abilities that people struggle with. We always see people running to the forums complaining about others ignoring mechanics.