The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Reisui]

so much this..so much this.

when you need a title to do something the whole system is already wrong from the start.

I'm already helping whenever I can, and I will do the new Mentoring, but not for the title, because it's a path to bring newbies and veterans together. I even think that most Mentors are not even doing it for the title. Have a bit of faith in the community, (I know it's hard) there are still good people out there

[Whiteroom]

@whiteroom we see things differently. You dont have to agree, until proven wrong my opinion and vision is as valid as yours.Time will tell how could this system is, right. The use of DF by low levels that are still under mentoring limits will me met with less patieence than is today. Level 60 df party this day SMN never used aby dots didnt see the need to. Used titan because is cool. I checked loadestone he is well within requirements for mentorship and probably will ve one.. tell me doesnt it wordy you? It does me and this is not an isolated case

How are you not getting that it is a system that allows those who are looking for help to identify and easily find those who are willing to help, and vice versa? You can go and randomly help people who may or may not need or want your help, or you can connect with people who want help easily. Or you can say "I mentoerd before it was cool, I don't need that system."


Your comment about the SMN shows you didn't even read, or if you did read, did not understand my post, and that you continue to not understand the purpose of the requirements for mentor.


Also your coment later about needing a title to teach shows that you can either not grasp the simple concept of what the system does in the most basic sense, that you are willfully ignoring it, or a third option.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a tool, the success of the job depends on the user.

Does it worry me bad players will be able to mentor, no. To me your inability to grasp what the system is is just as telling as that SNM not using dots, and I'm not saying that to insult, it's just the way I see it. Bad players can and do mentor people now, if you care to understand better, read my previos post, the one you @whiteroom responded to.

[Odett]

I agree that you don't need a title to help people, but like Whiteroom said, it's a lot easier for a newbie to identify players that are willing to help if they have a mentor icon next to their name.

@Toguro
I definitely agree that 40 hours is too short for a player to be considered a newbie, but think of that mentor period more as an icebreaker. After they're no longer newbies, you can add them to your friends list, or make a linkshell if the player would like further guidance into the game.

[Noxifer]

Yay, wall of text incoming, accumulated while reading the thread...

How will tanking or healing help me teach a Bard?

Like others have said before (multiple times), it gives you perspective on what makes a bad Bard from a tank or healer's PoV. Like, for example, kiting an enemy when you accidentally draw aggro, instead of switching target and letting the tank get the mob back.

For me personally, I didn't even realize there was such a thing as positional attacks until I picked up PGL when I got closer to lvl30 on my GLD. I'd started to keep mobs relatively stationary before that, however. Not due to positionals, but in order to not accidentally hit healers or casters with cone AoEs. I probably frustrated many PGL and LNC back in the day, because my first transition from dodging AoEs by running through the mob and then staying there was to turn it 90 degrees instead (I remember doing this on that 'Died in Six Arms' boss crab many times) ^^; And then when I levelled PGL it clicked that even doing that would be bad ^^;

And yeah, I know these are things you learn a lot sooner than 60, but like someone else said, it's more likely you'll have levelled more than those three classes at least for a bit if you have those three at 60, due to cross-class skills. PGL, for example, has its last cross-class (Mantra) at 42, meaning those who play WAR, BRD, DRG and NIN seriously enough to want them at 60 are likely to have levelled MNK at least halfway to 60. Most others have their last cross-class at around 35. Which means that you'll be more likely to be able to give specific advice to the other party members you end up with as a mentor -- you'll hardly be able to give advice to another tank if you're the tank, or another healer if you're the healer, after all.

For the healer class you need at level 60, can't you just level SMN? Once you're level 60 SMN, you're automatically level 60 SCH. Unless I'm missing something, you don't have to heal at all in order to do that.

xD I was just thinking to myself, "Damn. I have WAR and SCH at 60, but I'd need to get to levelling my MNK in order to meet the requirements D: That's going to take ages, considering how slowly I level..." and then you go and post this. I had completely forgotten SMN... Mainly because I'm a craptastic SMN and can barely handle the level 50 skills. Keeping track of Dreadwyrm on top of that? D: No. Just no. Doesn't help that I have a SMN in my FC who has an e-peen the size of Dalamud ;_; I'll never manage to not compare myself to her.

And while it does feel like 'cheating the system', especially since I've just admitted how utterly worthless I am as a SMN, I do know it enough to be able to help people with less than 30 hours of playtime ;) Those players are highly unlikely to have progressed beyond level 50, unless they're a speed leveller (in which case they might not even need said help).

hu? i have done over 3700 dungeons and i have never seen someone being kicked because of a lack of cross-skills. not even the WAR tank in ultima hm without provoke was being kicked xD

Maybe they don't get kicked all that often, but they're certainly likely to not get a commendation if their lack of cross-classing has lead to any sort of hindrance during the run. Like lack of Provoke in a situation where it would have been useful or necessary, or lack of Swiftcast leading to trouble getting a Raise through mid-combat.

The mentoring system being a roulette in the first place makes me question whether it's actually intended to teach much of anything, as opposed to, say, a cross-realm PF listing. "Mentor wanted. About to run a quick dungeon. 3/4. Looking for a skilled all-60 mentor to coach how to successfully speedrun a dungeon." "DRG looking for mentor for improving opener and fight strategy, and BotD maintenance." "Healer looking for a healer-dps coach mentor." Those kinds of things would actually get you some real training.

On the other hand... there's nothing that hinders people from putting up those kinds of PFs now. Sure, they wouldn't be cross-realm, but...

[Whiteroom]

I think the biggest threat to the system is that they are not releasing it in a standalone patch. Instead, they are releasing it at the start of a treadmill reset. There looks to be some large amount of grinding coming in that will occupy a lot of the people who meet the requirements for a good while.

I myself tend to do a lot more helping at times like now, near the end of a patch cycle, and I notice others doing the same. So releasing it the start could have a "dead in the water" effect for it. Of course it could have an unitentional effect of more people who are casuals and not as focused (read: people who don't know class basics, not saying casuals are bad, but people who are so casual that they dont know their own class are bad.) having the time for the system at the start, inflating the ranks of people who will for example, say "A healers job is to heal, don't dps"

[Callback]

Not checking 20 pages to see if this was mentioned, but on the other side of the mentor fence, after tonight I will qualify as a mentor, despite still feeling clueless.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or if this is just how it's meant to be coming into endgame before grabbing endgame gear, but I still have trouble getting 100%HQ/max scrip tier on even things below 60, and FORGET about HQing high level mats themselves. I'm lucky to push chimerical felt to 60% HQ (from NQ manes). I don't know if this is normal or I'm just bad. ARR everything was so easy, 100% all the time while leveling, class quests super easy even on just the NQ tools the previous ones gave. HW even getting HQ tools from a friend I never stood a chance at 100% on same-level class quest crafts. Even doing 58 quests at 60 I end up with 70-80% HQ chance.

And on the gathering side, while I am a BIT more confident, I've never touched a favor. I'm clueless how they work. I still need to look up timing guides for ephemerals, and while I'm good on how to best scum RNG to farm discipline aethersands, I don't know the best dawnborne farming rotation. I've got scrip rotations down to a science, but I still don't know what a lot of things do. Like why would you use patience II over patience? What the hell does fish eyes do? Why do some corals need snagging while others don't?



All these questions, yet I qualify as a mentor. I guess? How early of a "pupil" do they expect me to guide? I AM giving advice to guildies just starting out, but I can only really guide people to 50. The 60 endgame is still foreign to me.


And to the above post, very true. What are the "new red scrip items" mentioned that will be coming in the patch? Nobody knows yet.

[MeiUshu]

people consider that mentoring is only good up to lvl 50, passed this level nobody needs a mentor because everybody is a pro, yes I am frustrated about all this, indeed

You are right, many people, including me, are like you. I dont feel I am good enough, understand ready, to go and mentor, but it takes some humility to reach this conclusion and most dont have it because most DONT care enough of an unknown to understand if themselves dont require a mentor in the first place. So how many of newby are going to be mentored by those that know less then them?

THAT is my worry

[Kaiser-Ace]

I said in my earlier posts that I'm far from any kind of master, even still, I can do what I can. I think the mentoring is more aimed at pre lvl 30 and in some cases up to 50s.

The goal isn't be master, it's be a guiding hand. You don't need to be a Master for.that, just willing to help.

If you know early crafts, gathering, or battle basics, that's more than someone who's logged in for the 1st time knows and you can at least start them in the right direction.

This system is to promote teamwork and comradery between newer players and more experienced players so the divide between them can start being narrowed.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Callback, you're on the right track. And your answer is simple:

Mentor new players on what you can. Their questions are all within your current level of experience. As for YOUR questions, seek out a mentor. Not a literal one, but another player you trust who has the answers you seek.

It's literally a circle of life/experience.

[Reisui]

people consider that mentoring is only good up to lvl 50, passed this level nobody needs a mentor because everybody is a pro, yes I am frustrated about all this, indeed
You are right, many people, including me, are like you. I dont feel I am good enough, understand ready, to go and mentor, but it takes some humility to reach this conclusion and most dont have it because most DONT care enough of an unknown to understand if themselves dont require a mentor in the first place. So how many of newby are going to be mentored by those that know less then them?
THAT is my worry

Nobody said that mentoring is only good up to 50, it can also be used post 50, alone not with this system.
New players lay contact with veterans, for the help at the start, to get to know the game. A newbie isn't going to ask an in-depth question from the start. He will need global advice on how to do stuff, be it from dps/heal/tank to gatherer/crafter. You will also be there to learn them and help them with the first dungeons.

Then actually some newbies will go there way and experience the game on there own, knowing there is someone who they can ask help too if needed. Some will maybe join the FC of the Mentor, some will enter and LS and ask advice on regular base.

I see the Mentor system more as guide then an teacher who will learn you the job from A-Z. To do that, the player will need to do research and trial and error. Thing is, along the way he laid contact with people, he know he can ask stuff too, as being just a new player entering Eorzea alone, and afraid to ask stuff, since he doesn't know if the person is willingly to help them.

Also, the Mentors can also learn stuff from each other, I for example would like to have a chat with fellow healers on my server to know how they handle stuff etc.

And yeah, you always will have rotten apples, that will be morons, that's the way it is. A newbie that got wrong information, will find out quickly, he will be told by people in the dungeon, then yeah, he may get yelled at, or have someone nicely explain him what's wrong. That's something we can't know. Where there is light, there is darkness.

Take this as an opportunity to reach out to those players, you should become a Mentor I think, because you are one, you said you like to help people, well this way people know that.