The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Odett]

Tank fundamentals: Keeping aggro on all enemies, position them away from your team to avoid AoEs and AoE melee attacks bosses tend to have, look at your team's classes,(I have a pugilist, I need to make sure they can get their attacks in so I must have the enemies in a position to attack efficiently), Provoking(Although technically not a "fundamental" because that is learned at lv22, you would already need to know how to tank then but Provoke is a must-know), watching your root source of enmity(TP/MP you need that to keep attacking to keep aggro), checking your team's gear(gotta know what gear they have before you do things to make decisions in the long run), knowing your enmity attacks like Skull Sunder or Savage Blade and how they work(This includes Flash range), cycling through enemies to obtain substantial aggro on ALL enemies in the group so in case a team member does not know the fundamentals of focusing, you will not lose aggro.

What you've listed is what you know from your bare-bones tanking experience. Now, suppose that a newbie tank asks you how tanking changes at higher levels.

Things you, at level 30 have experienced and can teach from first-hand experience:

-Keeping AoE enmity on trash pulls (Flash, Overpower, Unleash)

-Use your agro combo on single targets

Thing a level 60 tank can explain from first-hand experience:

-Actual defensive cooldown rotations: how they work in relation to another, cooldown synergy, as well as which cooldowns don't work together (something you have absolutely no experience with as a lv 30 MRD when Bloodbath and Foresight are your only defensive cooldowns).

-Stance dancing: when to do it, how cooldowns can make up for your lower defense or HP, which cooldowns have the highest synergy with your offensive stance or lack of tank stance, when not to stance dance.

Utility and DPS combos: what they do, how they are important to use once you have secure agro, which ones have a higher priority.

Resource management: managing your MP as a DRK, managing your Wrath/Abandons stacks as a WAR (you can't even use your stacks at level 30).

Also, about your provoke comment: you learn it at 22, but don't use it for its full effect until at least level 50, where tank swapping is first introduced. You can explain how after Provoke, it's best to follow up with a high enmity skill as WAR or PLD, or how it's safe to not do that as a DRK because your large number of otGCD attacks can make up for it if you have them up at the time you provoke. You can also teach more creative uses for Provoke, like pulling a monster before an obstacle that you can't reach with Unmend/Tomahawk/Shield Lob, like in Neverreap, or even closer to the newbie tank's 40 hour period, the patrols in Stone Vigil.

Also, not all DPS follow the "fundamentals" of focusing, because as an ARC/SMN, you have enough DoTs for your first dungeon to learn that your optimal DPS rotation for trash includes DoTing everything rather than just focusing down one monster. What you have is a very general (yet solid, for your level) and vague idea of tanking, and again, you cannot go into details when you try to explain something you have no first-hand experience with. Again, you've barely scratched the surface.

[NovaLevossida]

Yes I agree the requirements for mentors seem arbitrary, but what would be better choices?

I think having a special Stone, Sky, Sea dummy set up that expects you to hit 90-95% of your maximum DPS on a DPS role is a better qualification for testing that you know how to play your monk or ninja or black mage than anything SE has pushed for so far. It would weed out the "ice mages" who would otherwise qualify as mentors. People should know how to play their roles by the time they have all those commendations and dungeon requirements completed, but so many of the people in this game still don't. I'd rather directly test ability than, like the relic and anima weapons, just track time played.

[Zojha]

I think having a special Stone, Sky, Sea dummy set up that expects you to hit 90-95% of your maximum DPS on a DPS role is a better qualification for testing that you know how to play your monk or ninja or black mage than anything SE has pushed for so far.

I'm sure the knowledge of how to push 90-95% of one's potential DPS in a specific class will be of immense use to a newbie who doesn't even know jobs exist *cough*

[NovaLevossida]

I'm sure the knowledge of how to push 90-95% of one's potential DPS in a specific class will be of immense use to a newbie who doesn't even know jobs exist *cough*

I'm sure they'll be better off with someone who knows how to play his job instead of someone who doesn't but arbitrarily passes the requirements because they're just testing time played rather than skill.

[Odett]

I think having a special Stone, Sky, Sea dummy set up that expects you to hit 90-95% of your maximum DPS on a DPS role is a better qualification for testing that you know how to play your monk or ninja or black mage than anything SE has pushed for so far. It would weed out the "ice mages" who would otherwise qualify as mentors. People should know how to play their roles by the time they have all those commendations and dungeon requirements completed, but so many of the people in this game still don't. I'd rather directly test ability than, like the relic and anima weapons, just track time played.

It sounds like a good idea, but if I'm understanding the content correctly, there will be different dummies in SSS depending on the encounter you wanna test your DPS against, so then it would be up to SE to set up which dummy you need to beat in order to become a mentor, and also a way for the game to test if the dummy you beat is relative to your average iLv: like, beating the dummy for BisEX at ilv 150 would show you know how to play your job, but beating the same dummy at ilv210 doesn't prove much. The next comment is a bit off-topic, but it would be a good idea if SE locked content to DPS players until they beat the dummy specific to the fight the want to attempt.

[MeridaQ]

I know there is a lot of back and forth here but I think a key point that was made is that it's only 40 hrs. After that they are cut loose! The ideal is the mentees keep in contact with their mentors for later game help, but that might be atypical.

So! What I would suggest is create a LS that could be for mentors/mentees after the 40 hrs. Those that want to continue and help can and the mentees will be exposed to people on the same level and vets that are ready to help. I have already created that for crafting/gathering on Ultros and helped lead the original beginners hall. Now I just have to create the DoW/M. If you're interested in helping it is in your hands.

[MeridaQ]

If anyone is interested in this or how to get it started let me know and I will try to set up a Reddit or forum post. Good luck everyone do your best!

[CosmicKirby]

And the big one, a player who has played DPS, Healer and Tank has not only played three jobs, but a wide range of jobs. Know why? Because a successful player has gained cross-class skills from a variety of jobs, and will understand which skills benefit most.

This is a leap in logic. There's no requirement on which classes they need to 60 other than 1 of each role. DPS classes in particular might need Invigorate and Blood for Blood from LNC, Second Wind from PGL, and Raging/Quelling Strikes from ARC. Much less healers find great use in Swiftcast from THM. None of these skills are really required by any content listed as pre-reqs for being a mentor, so to assume a player has it isn't logical. They SHOULD have it, but there's no method to ensure they do and no real challenge that would force them to do so.

The rest of your argument was sound, but there's just no proof or requirement that Mentors grabbed the cross class skills they should have grabbed.

[Jamillion]

Not to be argumentative or piss in your cheerios OP, but how would you have set the requirements? I'm genuinely curious.

[Lemuria]

This is a leap in logic. ... They SHOULD have it, but there's no method to ensure they do and no real challenge that would force them to do so.

Sure, it's not mandatory, but anyone who has three level 60 jobs, has participated in over 1000 dungeons, and has anywhere near their 300 commendations almost certainly has cross-class skills. I'd strongly argue that anyone who managed to fulfill those requirements would not have been able to do so without them, since they'd be kicked off the team more often than not.