The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Toguro]

The very, very basic fundamentals of all roles(DPS, Tanking, Healing) can be learned without leveling those classes. I'm talking specifically with the Mentoring time limit of 40 hours. Mentees can vary as some rush through some don't. When I joined FFXIV it was about Nov. 11, when I was lv23, it was Dec.1. I was taking it slow. My mentoring hours would have been up.

The very basic fundamentals of healing: healing of course, watching MP bars, using Cleric Stance at the right times(All newbies will be Conjurers at the beginning), knowing the effect of Cleric Stance, watching your aggro(something every role needs to know to avoid taking aggro), shielding(Protect, etc), staying within range of the tank and team to heal them, staying out of AoEs, using basic cures and AoE cures, detrimental effect removal, watching the overall status of the team.

Tank fundamentals: Keeping aggro on all enemies, position them away from your team to avoid AoEs and AoE melee attacks bosses tend to have, look at your team's classes,(I have a pugilist, I need to make sure they can get their attacks in so I must have the enemies in a position to attack efficiently), Provoking(Although technically not a "fundamental" because that is learned at lv22, you would already need to know how to tank then but Provoke is a must-know), watching your root source of enmity(TP/MP you need that to keep attacking to keep aggro), checking your team's gear(gotta know what gear they have before you do things to make decisions in the long run), knowing your enmity attacks like Skull Sunder or Savage Blade and how they work(This includes Flash range), cycling through enemies to obtain substantial aggro on ALL enemies in the group so in case a team member does not know the fundamentals of focusing, you will not lose aggro.

DPS Fundamentals: Watching your aggro so you don't take it from the tank IF they are not cycling. Stop attacking that enemy. Attack the tank's enemy, watch TP, attack, priority targets.

Once you tell them the fundamentals of the role, you may teach them the fundamentals of the class and neat tricks and cross-skills(Here's where Impulse Drive comes in, leveling Gladiator to 8 to get flash and help with AoE enmity generation, etc).
Bonus Fundamentals: You can teach them the importance of provoke, AoEing big mobs down, avoid using push attacks for no reason(Push them into tanks or away from healers or into walls to avoid moving them), using cooldowns right, using your attacks/heals right, teaching functions of traits, avoid AoEs, positionals, finishers

Those are things that a "specialist" can teach better than a non-specialist but players who play for a long time can still teach those particular things easily. Only deep job stuff requires a specialist, absolutely. That is useless though because newbies only have 40hrs.

Then there's the next section that Gunspec posted in this thread earlier. The fundamentals of the game world itself outside of fighting/combat. FCs, GCs, chocobos, sidequests unlockables, materia, dye, glamour, the market board, guildleves, guildhests, and all the other stuff the game throws at you before 30 at least minus glamour. You can teach them about the very deep options section(I think its deep, has a lot of stuff in it). Tons of stuff that you can teach outside of fighting.

^ All of these things can be done and taught by players who are at least 50(returning players and/or players who lack Heavensward). They do not, should not need a level 60 class to teach a newbie, newbie things. Your Heavensward knowledge is useless because they will never be 60 in 40hrs. The game's fundamentals were created long before Heavensward. They were created at release. Level 50s at the start of ARR 2.0(Release I mean) should be qualified to mentor as they know the fundamentals. A level 50 tank can teach just as good as a 60 tank because the fundamental skills required to teach and tank are learned at an early stage. The stuff at 60 is add-on stuff.

What SE should do is make another mentoring system for higher level players so they can engage in the next step of mentoring. Learning your class/job. THAT will require "specialists" when you get to the deepest parts of the job. But fundamentals? Basic fundamentals? That is learned through experience in the game world itself. Not leveling a healer. As a lv60 DPS, when you level a healer, you're already gonna know the general concept of healing.

Having the dungeon restriction makes no sense as you can learn the fundamentals of combat in 300 dungeons. I'm sure there are tons of people who are left out of teaching because of the requirements. Left out of teaching early fundamentals about the game itself AND combat fundamentals.

[Kyros]

Having the dungeon restriction makes no sense as you can learn the fundamentals of combat in 300 dungeons. I'm sure there are tons of people who are left out of teaching because of the requirements. Left out of teaching early fundamentals about the game itself AND combat fundamentals.

I'm just going to address this since the rest is your typical spiel of you being awesome and knowing everything.

Do you think SE cares if a large number of the population can't be mentors? Nope, not at all. Odds are the current people that already meet the criteria will be more than enough for all the new players we're getting. Like, we mentors probably outnumber new players several times over.

And another thing is that you're not looking at this from a design perspective, or even a talent-recruitment perspective. Yes, you and similarly talented players may be able to grasp the entire concept of roles without actually playing them, but without the actual job at 60 there is no way for the system to know you know. It is the same thing as looking for talent or getting new people for a job: You post requirements, and typically only very special cases get a pass without meeting these.

You might be an amazing teacher for example, but without anything that certifies it all you have is your word for it. Companies hiring teacher will simply tell you "Go get certified, you should have no trouble if you are as good as you say". This is the same concept. If you are the hotshot player that needs no experience to know the in's and out, well then what's stopping you? Go get the jobs at 60, it's not a hard requirement. SE isn't going to send a GM in person to quiz you on your knowledge of the jobs because you are a special snowflake.

Oh and another thing. You said several times that "You can grasp the fundamentals of jobs before level 40". Even if this was true (Not) North Than fate grind requires you to be at least around 40. So per your own argument, those people botting their way to 60 have "The same level of knowledge" that you claim to have. Your own arguments defeat themselves :/

[Odett]

Tank fundamentals: Keeping aggro on all enemies, position them away from your team to avoid AoEs and AoE melee attacks bosses tend to have, look at your team's classes,(I have a pugilist, I need to make sure they can get their attacks in so I must have the enemies in a position to attack efficiently), Provoking(Although technically not a "fundamental" because that is learned at lv22, you would already need to know how to tank then but Provoke is a must-know), watching your root source of enmity(TP/MP you need that to keep attacking to keep aggro), checking your team's gear(gotta know what gear they have before you do things to make decisions in the long run), knowing your enmity attacks like Skull Sunder or Savage Blade and how they work(This includes Flash range), cycling through enemies to obtain substantial aggro on ALL enemies in the group so in case a team member does not know the fundamentals of focusing, you will not lose aggro.

What you've listed is what you know from your bare-bones tanking experience. Now, suppose that a newbie tank asks you how tanking changes at higher levels.

Things you, at level 30 have experienced and can teach from first-hand experience:

-Keeping AoE enmity on trash pulls (Flash, Overpower, Unleash)

-Use your agro combo on single targets

Thing a level 60 tank can explain from first-hand experience:

-Actual defensive cooldown rotations: how they work in relation to another, cooldown synergy, as well as which cooldowns don't work together (something you have absolutely no experience with as a lv 30 MRD when Bloodbath and Foresight are your only defensive cooldowns).

-Stance dancing: when to do it, how cooldowns can make up for your lower defense or HP, which cooldowns have the highest synergy with your offensive stance or lack of tank stance, when not to stance dance.

Utility and DPS combos: what they do, how they are important to use once you have secure agro, which ones have a higher priority.

Resource management: managing your MP as a DRK, managing your Wrath/Abandons stacks as a WAR (you can't even use your stacks at level 30).

Also, about your provoke comment: you learn it at 22, but don't use it for its full effect until at least level 50, where tank swapping is first introduced. You can explain how after Provoke, it's best to follow up with a high enmity skill as WAR or PLD, or how it's safe to not do that as a DRK because your large number of otGCD attacks can make up for it if you have them up at the time you provoke. You can also teach more creative uses for Provoke, like pulling a monster before an obstacle that you can't reach with Unmend/Tomahawk/Shield Lob, like in Neverreap, or even closer to the newbie tank's 40 hour period, the patrols in Stone Vigil.

Also, not all DPS follow the "fundamentals" of focusing, because as an ARC/SMN, you have enough DoTs for your first dungeon to learn that your optimal DPS rotation for trash includes DoTing everything rather than just focusing down one monster. What you have is a very general (yet solid, for your level) and vague idea of tanking, and again, you cannot go into details when you try to explain something you have no first-hand experience with. Again, you've barely scratched the surface.