The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

[Legion88]

So, everyone here ranting about the reqirements seems to not see the whole picture.
Ther requirements are not only for the mentoring site, they are also for the roulette bound to the system.

1k dungeon clears means you have played a lot of time, so you should be experienced in the game.
300 commendations means you are not a complete jerk.

1 out of each role at 60 means multiple things:
- you should be done with leveling in havensward aka you are in the actual content
- you have a proven way to say "I know all the spectrums of the basics of the trinity and the game itself"
- speculation: The roulette will say which role you have to pick to join

It is just a level requirement like all other content in this game.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Toguro, I get what you're implying, but there's a big disconnect in there somewhere.

It seems like you're saying that being max level as a requirement won't do much for a new player, or before they hit the milestone of 50. This is untrue. It's almost as if saying that the total sum of experience one should have at 60 would be of less value than what they have at 50 because of a new player's perspective. Yes, a newer player won't necessarily be tasked to have to mind certain skills/situations pre-50, at 50, and beyond that. But the road to those milestones is effectively structured to allow players more than enough room to grow into their roles and skills. There, is where each player is personally accountable. The guy who rushes to 50 is still going to have to learn the same things, but would now feel the pressure of expectation at 50 vs leveling. A mentor who has been through this perhaps, and learned the hard way would be of value if only to help teach what not to do.

Add to that, any effective coach or instructor knows how to gauge and meter what they teach. In instructing FC members on how to play MCH, I explained basics and some of the less clear things to them to start with. Never mentioned Wildfire until they got it. Or turrets. Or Hypercharge and the effects it has on turrets. Why? Because it would have done them no good at that point. You're right that a newer player won't take much from say, mastery of DRG rotation with Blood of the Dragon, or effective use of defensive cooldowns they wouldn't yet have, but this is almost like saying mentorship just ends at the 40 hour mark. It doesn't. At least it shouldn't. I said it elsewhere before, but even with my DRK and PLD at 60, and working on WAR finally, I still seek out the person whom I chose as my tanking mentor even now. Not because I'm bad, but because she's that good. What I couldn't figure out for myself, I would then ask her once it was relevant (i.e. I didn't ask anything about Dark Arts usage or the like until I had it). Again, this doesn't invalidate her knowledge as a mentor simply because I couldn't utilize some of the skills or knowledge she has yet. And that's what some of us are saying. Also consider that the bar is set at 60 because say a new player decides they want to fast track themselves to the top; now they've got a bunch of skills and questions that, if the mentor were perhaps still at, say 54, wouldn't be as able to help with.

It's a cruel metaphor to use, but it's like asking if you wanted Y'shtola to teach you to heal, or Edda?

[Judah_Brandt]

I think I said something along those lines back on like page ten, that players who are elitists aren't going to bother with a system they view as arbitrary. I'll double check and edit this with a quote later.

It was page 14. Why have we been at this so long.

[BlatantPyre]

You did, I just wanted you to go further into how if it was abused, the high requirements would guarantee that most of the players who earned it would know how to handle any trolling that occurred. S'all good, I think the point is backed enough so it's not "just me sayin' it"...

[Judah_Brandt]

...

Just realized we're both on Jenova. High-five. I'm truly hoping there won't be internal witch hunting and strife in the Mentor linkshell due to a few bad players, but if it's anything like early-pulling hunts I'm sure it will be straightened out in short order by the players who don't tolerate nonsense like that.

Assumptively speaking for the community as a whole, with minimal rewards to be had for effort we as mentors will have to put in I don't see the amount of satisfaction being equitable for the volatile players. There obviously won't be any function to actively remove a Mentor's status, but one can only assume that their enjoyment of trolling new players would swiftly be met with the vocal do-gooders.

[Miscreant]

I'll just add my opinion here quickly, I wouldn't mind trying out mentoring except theres one problem, I don't have and will probably never have a tank to 60, they just aren't my thing.

I do have every healer to 60, a couple of DPS (melee & caster), I have also cleared every raid while it was current and some of savage coil before 3.0 (I didn't cheese it with unsynched). Also from having raided with all three types of Tanks over the last two+ years I have a pretty solid idea of how they work etc... But you know because I don't actually enjoy playing tanks I'm not qualified to mentor.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'll just add my opinion here quickly, I wouldn't mind trying out mentoring except theres one problem, I don't have and will probably never have a tank to 60, they just aren't my thing.

I do have every healer to 60, a couple of DPS (melee & caster), I have also cleared every raid while it was current and some of savage coil before 3.0 (I didn't cheese it with unsynched). Also from having raided with all three types of Tanks over the last two+ years I have a pretty solid idea of how they work etc... But you know because I don't actually enjoy playing tanks I'm not qualified to mentor.

That doesn't however disqualify you from doing the job. I would encourage you to actively mentor newer players anyways if you have the heart to do it.

[Miscreant]

That doesn't however disqualify you from doing the job. I would encourage you to actively mentor newer players anyways if you have the heart to do it.

I used to when doing dungeons etc, but no matter how politely you try to tell people they are doing something wrong they tend to take it as an attack.

[Kyros]

I think the problem is that he doesn't understand that just because it can be done, does not mean it will be done.

Sure, you can learn ALL of the trinity's roles by level 30. Good players will typically have a good idea of what's going on before 60. But again, because it can be done, it doesn't mean it will. The large majority of the players will in fact lack this knowledge. The system needs to make sure the mentors have quality, much more than it needs to ensure quantity. Are these requirements weeding out some very good players that unfortunately do not meet the requirements? Yes. But it is also weeding a lot more players that shouldn't be mentors, and that is more important. Remember this system is to HELP the newbies, not to enable the entire player-base some rewards.

Also another thing about your tirade of level 50 vs level 60. They need to ensure jobs are at 60 because of pre-HW/ARR leveled people. I am on a legacy server and I know a LOT of people with all jobs at 50 because they leveled it in 1.0, that have not touched and know very little of the job. Typically they keep these jobs at 50 and only level what they like/want to 60. By ensuring jobs at 60 you know that they had played the job in the past 8 months enough to have it at max level. On the other hand, having the limit be 50 you open the floodgates to people that haven't touched the jobs in four years. Likewise, it lets people that stopped playing since 2.1 and likely have no clue of what the game is now to dispense advice. These are all very bad things, so restricting it to 60 over 50 is the only sensible option.

Also, you seem to have completely skipped the actual physical requirements of performing the mentor service. You seem fixated into helping DRG's as a DRG, and the current system may allow that, but what of helping a PLD as a PLD? Or a WHM as another WHM? When doing the roulette, you'll have to change to another job to help them. I am going to help Tanks personally, and this will most likely be done from my SCH or any of my other DPS's, because I can't help a WAR in dungeons as another WAR/PLD/DRK. Forcing you to have all 3 roles at 60 means you are more likely to be able to fill any role than someone that only has one job at 60.

[Solarra]

snip

Common sense and very refreshing, wish I could like your post more than once.

To the people who don't qualify and want to be mentors:
Add this to your goals in-game and work towards it. If you aren't prepared to do that, then ask yourself why want to do this and if you're really going to have enough patience to cope with people who learn at a slow or uneven pace, just don't seem to 'get' your explanations or regularly forget things you've already taught them.
Mentoring is tough, it's good that Square are setting the bar high.
Yes, it will exclude some people who would probably make great mentors but none of the requirements are impossible to achieve.