DPS checks vs mechanics

[Kaurie]

DPS checks are a lazy mechanic and are frustrating because they can be simply out-geared. We seem to have a lot more DPS-check focused mechanics in Heavensward than I ever remember in ARR. Even so, you still needed high DPS. I think a great example is T9. This fight, mechanically, is quite challenging. I unsynced coil with 6 newbies and 1 other person who had cleared them with me before. We raced through every turn, except T9. We were stuck on T9 for quite awhile as the team grew to learn the mechanics of the fight. It's certainly easier now that we were unsynced and doing more damage, but that wasn't the focus mechanic. In my opinion, T9 is the best designed fight in this game, and it would be great to see more fights with that sort of complexity.

I think fights should encourage you to have good DPS, but over-gearing (high DPS) shouldn't trivialize the fight.

[Klamor]

Blah.

The sarcasm clearly went over your head.

For the other part of your post. How about Turn 5, or Turn 13? Or, more recently, Thordan Extreme. There are fights with more complex mechanics. Yoshi has all ready addressed the point that the dps checks in Savage were too difficult. Why are we still talking about it, when the issue has all ready been addressed and Midas will, supposedly, return to Final Coil level of difficulty?

[SnugglesD]

Thats not what i said, but well... whatever, you will turn around words anyway to fit it as you wish...
It may helps to read the whole and not just pickup pieces...
Indeed i am thinking that "good games" are where i have gotten "best memories"...
It would be strange to call games where i have gotten "best memories" as "bad games"...
Edit: And those "best memories" were in games with no DPS checks, do you get the connection?!

This is actually an argument that I have quite often with people. Just because you like something, it doesn't make it good. It is possible to recognize that something is bad and still like it. Some of my favorite movies are horrible movies from an objective stand point. Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle? Terrible movie, but one of my favorites. A Knight's Tale? Bad movie that I can enjoy every single time it comes on. Objectivity goes a long way.

[Kaurie]

The sarcasm clearly went over your head.

Ah indeed it did. I thought he was serious. I'll adjust my post, as the rest of my point stands.

[Yukiko]

I'm just going to leave this little snippet from what I said right here in case you missed it and highlight the appropriate portions...

Its not the first time i heard about "you need gear from coil to beat coil", same with alexander!

You should consider looking at other jobs if you argue like that because you argue like every other job than yours dont have stat problems...
Try to compare some as example take a mnk who can only beat AS2 so far which means no AS3 or AS4 equip and look at the differences in stats, its not entirely that the players did not do research its mostly the fixed stats on gearsets that prevent customising them to your needs... Lets see, the new materia system may fix that.

[Yukiko]

This is actually an argument that I have quite often with people. Just because you like something, it doesn't make it good. It is possible to recognize that something is bad and still like it. Some of my favorite movies are horrible movies from an objective stand point. Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle? Terrible movie, but one of my favorites. A Knight's Tale? Bad movie that I can enjoy every single time it comes on. Objectivity goes a long way.

Human beings are the sum of experiences made through life, if you argue now with "everything is relative" we can perish being humans...
You can say its my opinion and its subjective but i do not force it on anyone. I never said you are playing bad games!
What i said was "as if..." and then i have even given a reason what was meant with "good game" from this viewpoint.
Now if you try to change the viewpoint but keeping the said parameters it will not work...

Lets draw a line from point A to point B to point C to point D... a Square when we look from top, a line when we look from sides...

[Syrehn]

You should consider looking at other jobs if you argue like that because you argue like every other job than yours dont have stat problems...
Try to compare some as example take a mnk who can only beat AS2 so far which means no AS3 or AS4 equip and look at the differences in stats, its not entirely that the players did not do research its mostly the fixed stats on gearsets that prevent customising them to your needs... Lets see, the new materia system may fix that.

Again...

Sorry, but if a player can't or won't optimize their gear/stats, and that in turn is causing them substantial amounts of dps downtime....

Please take note of the parts that say "can't" or "won't". This is usually indicative of players having the option but choosing not to.

Also, don't put words in my mouth. I never said there aren't stat problems on other jobs but clearly, players optimizing to the best of their abilities and executing mechanics appropriately (situational awareness goes a long way) can still complete challenging content and perform at an optimal level.

[Ashkendor]

sigh...
is that really how the new generation is thinking?

Its as if you never played good games.
One of the best memories I have from games with no DPS checks!
You dont know anything if you say it will make classes obsolete or if you say you just need to run in circles...

Welp, that certainly didn't take long for someone to get condescending.

Try making your point without being insulting, then maybe people will listen.

[Yukiko]

Welp, that certainly didn't take long for someone to get condescending.
Try making your point without being insulting, then maybe people will listen.

Thanks, but maybe giving an example will help more than to say "no".
Just knowing it will be insulting doesnt help anything to change it if you dont know other words.
And in that part its not my opinion when i say about "classes obsolete" or "running in circles" because its a fact - there are games with no DPS checks and you can run in circles and still wipe hard, same with games where you will wipe when just going in with one class... so what i was trying to say in that sentence is: "if you argue that way, then you have not experienced a game where it did not happen". Is that less insulting? Just give an example please for players who are not good in english speaking...

[Ashkendor]

Just give an example please for players who are not good in english speaking...

Saying "If you don't agree with me, you don't know anything" seems like it would be insulting in any language. o.o