The Point of DRKness

[Jpec07]

So, I've seen a lot of people making an argument lately that I'm really trying to understand. They're saying that if PLD is buffed in 3.2 and its damage brought closer to par, that playing a DRK will suddenly have no point.

This baffles me.

In my opinion, DRK is a very well-designed job that has a very high skill threshold. Competence and mastery of the job and its mechanics are at a higher level than either of the other tanks, and can be incredibly rewarding. The gameplay is unique and fresh (doing more intensive MP management than healers), they have a strong niche as the anti-magic tank, and the aesthetic and class flavor is extremely consistent and well done.

All around, DRK is just a really fun job, and I have a hard time grasping why someone would give it up.

Does efficiency really trump gameplay in terms of something being enjoyable?

[Joe_Schmoe]

Does efficiency really trump gameplay in terms of something being enjoyable?

My theory, from past experience playing WoW, is that one has played all the classes so many times that you get burned out on all of them. Then it just becomes efficiency > fun after that.

As far as DRK goes, I've yet to play it. But if it's anything like death knights in WoW I'll probably like everything about them except the aesthetics (too much emo-goth for my taste), which kills it for me.

[MagiusNecros]

If content is physically heavy I'd go PLD...if it's more magical then DRK.

Only thing that baffles me is why they call it Dark Knight instead of Blackguard. The class just feels like a Dark version of Paladin that just specializes in MP management and mitigating magical damage as it's main gimmick.

[Lan_Mantear]

The class just feels like a Dark version of Paladin that just specializes in MP management and mitigating magical damage as it's main gimmick.

You can thank Cecil Harvey for that.

[Cabalabob]

Thing is content is naturally more physical heavy than magical, think about it, how many enemies use only magic? Ramuh, Leviathan's head and A4(s) boss. In these fights DRK will excel over PLD cause PLD brings nothing of value to the table, but in every other fight its reversed, DRK has nothing to match up to the shield, 30% parry rate increase vs. 60% block increase + 100% block every 30 seconds. Block is stronger than parry in every way (rate and strength). If a mob uses physical attacks then any magic attacks are usually just specials making STR down more useful than INT down for overall damage reduction and if you have a MNK then you get both. And now PLD will also bring just as much dps as DRK so it doesn't have that anymore either.

DRK will still be a capable tank, it will be able to handle tanking content using its universal mitigation and dark mind for magical specials, but it will be rare that there's a fight where DRK excels over PLD and WAR. Rune Fencer in ffxi struggles with the same issue.

[MagiusNecros]

You can thank Cecil Harvey for that.

Nah I can thank the dev team for that. At least Cecil when he ran as a Dark Knight he stayed true to the formula. I don't understand how they could fuck up with past entries with Dark Knight such as Cecil's limited foray in IV, XI and even the recent FF Explorers. Even X-2 did it justice. Baffling.

You know what Class actually sacrifices HP? Black Mage. With Convert. Pfffft.

[Jim_Berry]

Thing is content is naturally more physical heavy than magical, think about it, how many enemies use only magic? Ramuh, Leviathan's head and A4(s) boss. In these fights DRK will excel over PLD cause PLD brings nothing of value to the table, but in every other fight its reversed, DRK has nothing to match up to the shield, 30% parry rate increase vs. 60% block increase + 100% block every 30 seconds. Block is stronger than parry in every way (rate and strength). If a mob uses physical attacks then any magic attacks are usually just specials making STR down more useful than INT down for overall damage reduction and if you have a MNK then you get both. And now PLD will also bring just as much dps as DRK so it doesn't have that anymore either.

DRK will still be a capable tank, it will be able to handle tanking content using its universal mitigation and dark mind for magical specials, but it will be rare that there's a fight where DRK excels over PLD and WAR. Rune Fencer in ffxi struggles with the same issue.

Then the forums will be flooded with cry babies about making DRK stronger.

[Lyth]

As a tank, you often have to balance what you'd prefer to do against what a given group wants/expects you to do. For example, the reason that the str/vit gear choice became contentious was because it wasn't just about simply finding the correct choice for the fight and the group. It was also about catering to non-tanks' preconceptions on what that correct gear choice ought to be.

Presently, if you fill the MT slot, you're not just a PLD or a DRK. You're a PLD/DRK. There's a tacit expectation that you'll use whatever is optimum for an encounter (i.e. whatever was used in the world first clear).

For the entirety of ARR and the start of HW, the community felt that PLD was the de facto MT out of necessity because of it's high defense (it has a shield, it must be more defensive, right?) With the advent of A3S and A4S being cleared first on a non-PLD MT, DRK has managed to carve itself a temporary niche as an offensive-orientated alternative for MT (it doesn't have a shield). If you erode that too much, people will fall back on what's comfortable and familiar ("wait, you can't MT this fight on DRK!")

The challenge isn't designing these classes so that they are equally capable of tanking an encounter. The challenge is designing them so that the community perceives them as equally capable of tanking the encounter.

[Whiteroom]

The reason you see people claiming these things is simple. This is a gaming forum, EVERYTHING means the sky is falling. We don't yet know how or what effect the changes will have, so waiting and seeing is the thing to do.

[Galgarion]

So, I've seen a lot of people making an argument lately that I'm really trying to understand. They're saying that if PLD is buffed in 3.2 and its damage brought closer to par, that playing a DRK will suddenly have no point.

This baffles me.

In my opinion, DRK is a very well-designed job that has a very high skill threshold. Competence and mastery of the job and its mechanics are at a higher level than either of the other tanks, and can be incredibly rewarding. The gameplay is unique and fresh (doing more intensive MP management than healers), they have a strong niche as the anti-magic tank, and the aesthetic and class flavor is extremely consistent and well done.

All around, DRK is just a really fun job, and I have a hard time grasping why someone would give it up.

Does efficiency really trump gameplay in terms of something being enjoyable?

"Paladins have good damage now! It's the end for Dark Knights! Glug-glug-glug!" In a word: Nonsense. Dark Knights aren't going anywhere. Keep this in mind: Yoshi said flat out in the last letter that Alex Savage was seriously overtuned, and didn't provide equipment that was commiserate with the level of challenge provided. He also said that future raid content would be less difficult. We can take that to mean that if a Dark Knight played well and succeeded in A-S, there's no reason in hell that anyone would deny that player a tanking spot in the newer, easier content, short of everyone in the coil being addicted to sniffing markers and huffing paint fumes out of a garbage can.