So, I see alot of ''negative'' threads on this forum.

[Seraphix2407]

We all seen it the past few weeks, and recently on the forum. A lot of threads how the game currently is, the game was an extension rather than expansion.
Yes relic grind is ''useless'' after you obtain it, unless you are one of those who play 4ever catchup. The weekly lockout etc is all shit.
Okay, so I pretty much described the recent threads that's been going on the forum, hell even on reddit and we need to ask ourselves why. Before I start. you can call me a whiner, crybaby much as you want, but I think it's good some people, like myself criticise the game and how it is and what ''we all expected'' it to be.

Whats wrong and currently driving players away? Simple we have a few points we can talk about.
The content we get every 3 months, we love content, no doubt, but the lifespan of the actuall gear and items we work hard for, is somewhat useless the second we obtain it. Not everyone raids, some raid hardcore, some even raid for the sake of it. The groups who go for world first, good job on that, those players are beast and we all know they are amazing players, but the time they beat the content, they don't really need to farm it, because the gear they have will be ''useless'' the second they have it.

The dungeons and weekly caps, this stuff really annoys me, weekly lockout is a pure bait to keep subbing the game, it really is. People like myself currently and people who beat savage or other content a long time ago, has no benefits to weekly cap, because it's done.So why sub till new content comes out? Look at the people who currently cap every week, they do it but do they even use the gear that much?Not really, they afk, don't know what to do, act like the game is skype/facebook etc.

Dungeons seems like a big deal content for most people, but in reality they are just filles to cap your weekly tomestones, they have no benefits what so ever. Looking at the new patch I bet the new gear from dungeons will be ilvl 195, so why would you farm that? Well vanity if they look good enough, but since eso is going to be on the list of uncapped weekly tomestones, you might as well do dungeons for ilvl 200 and then do void ark.

Now we can go through exlusivity. I see a lot of people in the housing thread talk about how rare the coffin lid is, I know it's very rare so I ended up buying mine almost 2 months ago, due to how rare it is and not going to bother farming it for ages. But this is one of the problems too, when I helped 2 people on my own server getting kirin mount over 1 year and half ago, those were the very first people on server to own one, now everyone and their family owns one, why?This game has no exlusivity in gear/mounts/minions what so ever. Everyone will get it eventually because it's a nerf sooner or later. Look at how thavarian gear is like now, I was the very first guy on my server to craft it and sold it for 15 million gil, I know this is a high price, but it eventually dumped down in price and mostlikely would after a while, since peopel would do more maps for money, selling the silk. So we had to dumb that down and put 3-5 drops per chest and EVERYONE has it. In MMO's you wanna wark hard to get what you want, whatever it is; gear, vanity, weapons, minions and mounts, and actually want it to be exlusive for a long time, even til more people get it eventually but nerfing drop rate, dungeons/raids/primals so everyone can get a piece of it is just really dumb in my honest opinion. Worse part is when you grind in this game it doesn't really pay you off anymore, specially rare items like kirin, everyone will have it eventually and it's a big problem as well...

Next point.
Players has no desire to be better, yes you read that right, they dont. My previous point was they nerf everything so everyone gets things eventually. You can talk about that one guy who buys content and doesn't do shit for the gear he obtains buying it, hell talk about that guy who is in a friend group with 7 other and he constantly dies but still got a win. What about you who couldn't beat the content and do it with 20-30 ilvl hater later and with 10-20% echo? YOU aren't excactly BETTER than those who buy runs. I know I can't really compare, but if you need a patch later, with higher ilvl you know you can't talk how bad people are when you didn't really play any better. So to fix this in my opinion is to make 3 different content.
Tier 1, 2 and 3. 1 Being easiest, 2 being in between 2 and 3, and last is 3.
Don't make the gap much different, like let's say how garuda vs titan ex was back then. This will expect players to be alot better of all sudden and can't be lazy as they was in garuda extreme. They need somewhat to build up their skill and get better by time, some can eventually skip that, because they learn a lot faster/better.
Now a lot of people don't need a desire to be better, because SE baby sit's a lot of players. Common things we hear from those players are, it's just a game, get a life This is very tiresome, I know people who work's 10 hours a day and go to the gym for 1-2 hours, myself including and we can still pull through raids and what not. What about you who actually sits and play more than me but can't do it? This is a large issue and seriously needs a fix. Make players better by giving us content that makes them better. Stop focusing on stupid golden saucer mini games rarely anyone touches.
They see no flaw in a system that works excactly for them
And I'm talking about players who see no benefits of being better players, because there will always be nerfs.

Last point: Content, problem with current content it dies too fast the second patch is ut, everyone is eager to do it and once it's done it's done. This is not only an issue for a majority of players who wanna do content, but also the people who are behind on content and eventually needs it or wants it done. SE needs a way to make players stay instead of unsubbing all the time, so new players or people who are a bit behind get's all the help they need. It doesn't help when half of the party finders, duty finders etc are dead. There are so many people who want to do old crystal tower but there's no appeal to do it, no reason at all. This is a big issue, because to me, I love to help, but it's hard to help when I need other players to tag along so I can get the people through the fight or even find people who are interested, but many will just wait for a new patch to beat it (higher ilvl etc.)

We need content to last longer, better reward system, less carry and hold hands attitude in this game. We need to add more content, medcore, hardcore and somewhat in between for all type of players, then add long lasting rewards from them. This way new players and old players gets a benefit from it, but since there are no benefit now, there is now appealing to it.

I'm sorry for this long post but I really needed to post this as I see alot of thread's about how the game is currently. I also think why most people ''cries and whines'' are often those who actually did enjoy the game at some point and are willing to see changes for the future of the game, so they can keep playing, they care about the game. There wont be any change in the game, because most people think it's okay to do weekly cap and 2 expert dungeons every 3-4 months. I know alot of people who agree's with me but are also afraid to say it, because a lot of people (inb4 people say I'm a crying baby) will eventually just say: Quit the game, no it's not dead, there is alot to do. When you are me or like a player like me there is nothing to do. Last time I logged on, usually at patches the linkshell/fc is full, now it's barely 4-10 people online, almost no people in limsa/idylshire.

/Rant off I guess :P.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

This is nothing new. I agree that the game is pretty stagnant now and the last few attempts to add something different didn't go so well, but lull in content patches are not unusual. All of 2.X had its share of "this game is dying" in between every patch.

[Seraphix2407]

This is nothing new. I agree that the game is pretty stagnant now and the last few attempts to add something different didn't go so well, but lull in content patches are not unusual. All of 2.X had its share of "this game is dying" in between every patch.

Yes I agree,tbh 2.x content was better by better I mean more. More dungeons and primals each patch.
After HW came out, it's been 2 dungeons and 1 primal. We can discuss if the game is going to die or not, I don't think it will die anytime soon, but rather than becoming a DLC game rather than a MMO. Not sure how to explain it, but you do content for 1-2 months, unsub for 1-2 moths, then catch up patch comes and there's is no need to do it, for players who already done savage/harder content. This is a HUGE issue. Specially that we have cash shop, making people paying for retainers and we all know the money goes somewhere else, rather than the team for FF14. I might be wrong on this part, but sounds like. I honestly expected like 3-4 primals a patch and 4-5 dungeons a patch after HW came out, but I was very wrong. At least something very different than 2.x content sadly.

[Belhi]

From what Ive seen of forum complants there is a lot of people pretty much disagreeing with why they are unhappy with HW and on how to fix it. The only uniform thing in those threads is that people are unhappy with the game currently. Likewise everyone seems to believe they know what needs to be done to fix it.

Personally I suspect what needs to be done is for less content failures. Diadem, LoV and to a great extent Gordias Savage have been failed content because people don't want to play them. That removes a very large portion of current endgame activities. Combined with delay on 3.1 and your seeing bored people. I suspect even the quantity of agro over the Relic weapon is part of that. People want things to do that they find rewarding and interesting. What we have currently has failed to engage.

Of course I could always be wrong. As I said, this is my personal view. The base formula cant be too flawed because a lot of people seemed really happy with ARR.

[Seraphix2407]

Of course I could always be wrong. As I said, this is my personal view. The base formula cant be too flawed because a lot of people seemed really happy with ARR.

No! You are completely right and I agree very much with you. Savage wasn't rewarding. Beating a3 I didn't feel ''good'' about it, more like, okay cool. I love thordan, because it was fun, the reward wasn't great, it was there to help people beat older content or savage, nothing else. Maybe just a huge collection of weapons. Diadem was a fail because it wasn't that rewarding, LoV was a flop, and savage was just not rewarding compare to what coil gave us, coil gave us the same excact reward, but also more fun. I didn't mind savage but the actual reward was shit, because the gear is ''useless'' the time you get it. I was happy with ARR, now Ive been less impressed by what's been going on.

[Jim_Berry]

Diadem, LoV and to a great extent Gordias Savage have been failed content because people don't want to play them.

Diadem was cool at release. At least many people on my server did it. It slowed down when SE made some tweaks to the loot (since the change, and even after running Diadem Hard a minimum of twice a day every day, I have yet to see NIN chest drop, so my last three runs have been on BRD, and still haven't seen NIN chest drop). In one Diadem Hard run, it was epic. 4 groups, killing quick. We've got about 9 Gold chests, all chests dropped Tank earring. So now, most of use just go for the Eso pieces and use Hunts and Void Ark to upgrade to 210.

As for Lov, I have yet to try it, so I cannot comment.

With Gordias Savage, I'm seeing an increase in group formations now. Most of the people said it's because they want the 210 items there instead of farming Diadem.

[Atoli]

Honestly, all I see in the OP post is: "I have no reason to do anything" and "Waah, I'm not the only one with super special uber thing X anymore!".

1. The reason most people do content is, maybe surprisingly to you, because they have fun doing it. People don't raid to get the best gear from the hardest content when there obviously isn't anything they could use it for, since they already BEAT the hardest content to obtain said gear. They raid because they get enjoyment out of bettering themselves, out of growing together as a group and beating something that seemed impossible at first.
As for non-raiders - most don't even bother getting to weekly cap, because they don't need it. Yet they still run dungeons and primals and the like. You could argue that they do it because they are conditioned to do so, but come on, in the end, they play because they want to. Because it's fun goofing around with friends in a dungeon, or because they like the glamours or whichever it is. Nothing wrong with that.

As for the topic of "Bohoo, my special things are easier to obtain now!", there is a nice quote here on the forum. It's originally about endgame crafting/gathering, but point still stands:

Why is this a problem that things get easier for the next people to move up the chain?
If the first monkey to ever leave the trees had had this kind of attitude the rest of us would still be up there and his achievement would have never lasted beyond him.
Never look in your neighbor's bowl to make sure he doesn't have as much as you, look in there to make sure he has enough, and if he doesn't, help him fill it.
If the system is flawed, fix it and don't worry that was harder for the ones who went through it first.

What's with this disgusting envy that others have it easier? I buy my dress for 2 mio because I want it NOW, not just when the price drops to 200k in 2 months. And by then, new clothes are out that are super expensive and I'll buy them again because I want them NOW, not another 2 months down the line. I also got Kirin back when it was hard, so what? Do I need to show that off that hard? Well, I could just link my achievement page to every post then..
I'd be more bored if I could sit on my one special rare thing forever. This way, at least I have to obtain something new every patch to feel "special" again, be it highest ilvl gear, raid weapons, special mounts or rare drops or whatever it is that I might want to show off. Even old, "useless" gear has a way longer shelf life than many people realize. Glamour is a big deal to many, and we still have 2-3 Second Coil farm groups in PF everyday simply for the glamours.
Now I also agree that it's helpful to add new incentives to old content so players run it again (Crystal Tower, looking at you!), but when SE does exactly that, the same people complain about it being rehashed content. There were actually many complaints about how the new HW zones are so empty, how it's hard to level there because no one does the FATES, and so on. Anima quest sent tons of players there, but of course, no one liked doing FATEs instead of getting new content.

I agree about the nerfs though. But, at the same time, at this point I think most players would simply leave instead of trying to get better.
I've seen so many people who just quit the game over not getting through some content, usually story quest fights, or required dungeons, instead of listening to advice or reading/watching a guide.
FFXIV caters to that crowd, and it does well with that, even though it annoys the heck out of other players..x)
I hope their soft approach (adding ways to get better for those who want to instead of enforcing it on everyone through harder content) with the new Sky, Land, Sea or whatever it is called and the mentor roulette will help with that, but...we'll see.

Diadem, LoV and to a great extent Gordias Savage have been failed content because people don't want to play them. That removes a very large portion of current endgame activities.

I can totally see that. Not for the same reasons as Seraphix (again), but yes, those were both a problem. Savage because it wasn't a viable option for most players past A2S (and even the first 2 were just the same mechanics as in normal Alex, not a great start..) and Diadem..haha..hunts all over again. 90 min zerg on one island, yay. Not even gonna start on how useless Void Arc was BECAUSE of Diadem. I'd go so far to even include LoV in that. They spent so much development time on it and everyone was hyped for it, but it died off in like..a day? Partially because AGAIN it uses the system of requiring the player to be IN the Gold Saucer to use it + not being able to play it while queueing for something else + that it became a strategy micro-management game instead of the "My 1 minion vs your 1! Fight to the death!"-kind of fight people originally expected.

Edit: Sorry Belhi, kinda missed that you mentioned LoV already xD

[Seraphix2407]

Honestly, all I see in the OP post is: "I have no reason to do anything" and "Waah, I'm not the only one with super special uber thing X anymore!".

And I'll try my best way not to be rude but going to ask. Do you enjoy doing the same expert dungeons everyday for 3-4 months. Just a legit qustion. You do the same fights, scripted (same thing happens over and over) for 3 months straight without thinking: How many times did I do this? Is it fun or is it just boring? I'm asking because you say people love to do content for 3 months (same expert dungeons for whole 3 months or even raiding 4 same rooms for 6-7 months). I'm asking you, I've asked other people and many say it's tiresome doing the same thing for many months straight. I'm looking forward for a reply from you. About old content, I agree on what you said, people will mostlikely hate the way they handle old content. I agree 100%! . You can call me a whiner for all you want, it doesn't offend me. But as I stated, in my own post, many are afraid to speak up their mind in public, because what you said to me ''wah wah is all I see in OP post'' You are right most of the things in your post and I'm not gonna lie and say I disagree, because you have good points. However, exlusivity is a good thing to have, I'm not saying we should totally ignore people who can't do it or get certain vanity/gear/weapon, but somewhat put in a system that we can help them get it AND at the same time players who's helping get's something out of it. I know you don't need a reason to help, but this is a major problem, when many gotten already what they want, why would they wanna do it all over again for some one? I don't mind helping people, but we need somewhat a reward system for that.
About content, if you did read the post, it's not all about me as a player who wants more content, it's also about those who don't even raid, we need something for those people too. Like you mentioned, those who doesn't even raid, still do expert dungeons because they enjoy it, but sorry to say, I HIGHLY DOUBT, they enjoy doing same expert dungeons for 3-4 months. However, I do agree with most of what you said and I will keep it at that .

Edit: Also to add, I talk to people outside game, on skype, discord etc and they have been doing NOTHING for the past 3-5 weeks, besides doing maybe 1 dungeon, chatting with people, and it's those kind of players who doesn't even raid, but those you say do content 24-7 (dungeons) because it's fun. I highly doubt a large group of players enjoys doing same expert dungeons for 4 months straight, including you. I might be wrong.
Edit 2: Goddamn you XD. You had to edit yours and now I need to respond to that. I agree with what both of you said, the scale from 2-3 was too big (savage alex). That's why I want something in between and then a higher skill ceiling content after that. So people can improve on the lower tier and then go to the harder one and beat that one too. Either way you made a good post and I agree with most of it!

The reason you see a lot of complaining and negativity on the forums is that people usually post only when they are unhappy about something.
Most of the players who like the game just fine won't post about it here - they are busy playing the game instead.

Never, ever, trust any forum to give an unbiased view of the actual status of any game.

Yes and no. I own a fc, one of the higher standar ones in my server, second on large house when it came out, large group of players in my fc are richer than most people in game, high standars to raiding and beating content. And I'm here posting, doesn't mean I hate the game, I'm trying to adress issues alot of people won't bother talk about on forums, hell I even showed this post to my friends on skype and most agrees with me, some might disagree but I respect that.

[Reinha]

About content, if you did read the post, it's not all about me as a player who wants more content, it's also about those who don't even raid, we need something for those people too. Like you mentioned, those who doesn't even raid, still do expert dungeons because they enjoy it, but sorry to say, I HIGHLY DOUBT, they enjoy doing same expert dungeons for 3-4 months.

I don't raid and I like expert dungeons. :P Yes, even after 4 months (they are 3 months old at the moment). And there's plenty to do outside of savage, which is what I assume you meant by "people who don't raid". Alex normal (I recently did 40 runs to practice my healing and might go again to farm alt gear), Void Ark at least once every week, Diadem for pegasos (I already got mine but plenty of people haven't), Anima is still unfinished for many, bird dailies (and old dailies for newer players), maps, trials for those who like it and of course hunts for wyvern mount. Now that we can unsynch there's also Coil and old primals for glamour.

I find that 2 dungeons per patch has been more than sufficient so far, considering non-raiders/casuals got easy 8-man raids and Diadem to replace the 2 "missing" dungeons. Next patch we are getting more Alex normal and dps practice modes (one for each trial and savage floor). This is more types of pve than ARR had. I'm curious what MMO brings out 4-5 dungeons and 3-4 primal equivalents every 3 months as well as new types of pve content, if that's what you were expecting.

[Seraphix2407]

I don't raid and I like expert dungeons. :P

Now this is a reply I like to see, rather than ''you are butthurt''. So yes I somewhat ''expected'' it. Considering its paid sub game, plus cashop. No I know there is a few game that doesn't deliver that, but the amount of new dungeons we get, which in my honest opinion, is just for tomestone capping. Maybe some vanity and well as you stated, you having fun, which due to all respect, is your opinion. I did have my fun at some point too, don't get me wrong! But it's tiresome doing the same thing all over again for months and months. Variation is wanted (my opinion again). Like 3 bosses, in between adds in each dungeon, why not make it somewhat different? Like some one stated earlier, the diade, is just a large zone with hunts pretty much, which I totally agree with. They did try to change something or add things like LoV, but it was a huge flop. I'm glad to see you enjoy diadem, well do it for other peoples pegasus. But I will ask you, the amount of time you spend to get eso caps every week, which is 3510 eso for full left side, then you need 1875 for full right side, not including the weapon. 5385 eso! And you have 450 eso per week, so 11-12 weeks if my calcuations are right. More if you want to include weapon. So that's almost as long you need before a new patch is due, then you have catch up which is letting you upgrade gear and has weekly drop again, so 10 weeks for full upgrade, which is almost much as doing weekly cap for both full right and left side for eso gear, means another patch is very close to happening again. Do you consider this as reward? I mean farming takes more than the actuall use of it? Or you just ignore the fact you get better gear but don't really care about it, since you do the dungeons for fun? Which leaves me to next question, would you do anything in this game and not get any reward for it? Like you could easily do a dungeon or primals without any reward, lets say the weekly cap of tomestones?

I'm very torn on the idea of getting rewards for helping others. We already see the newcomer bonus exploited with people going into content with someone who is new to it to get the tomes, but then kick him so they don't have to deal with someone actually failing. Of course, it could be implemented in a way to not be exploitable, but still...that's kind of like helping homeless people and expecting tax cuts in return or something like that. I think getting rewarded for helping defeats the whole purpose, because it means you'll do it for the reward, not because you actually care. But it's not like I'm actually against that. I just see a certain risk with that.

Yea, I'm not gonna lie, I did a lot of bonuses for the relic, but I also let people engage the fights if they really wanted to, hell we even did some of the fights synced and made it even more fun for the player who had the bonus and really wanted to do it the old fashion way! You are somewhat right about people would just do it for the reward and not for caring, but I also think it's ''somewhat needed'' because you see alot of people don't have any ''reason'' to do the content anymore as they recived the stuff. For example my fc/linkshell had cleared thordan at the very beginning almost, did it with even 7 warriors for more fun! But once some one in the linkshell, a huge social one, many wanted to farm the weapons. I woulnd't mind helping them, but at some point it would been too much for me and the others. Hell it was even hard to help people getting peoples clear, because they knew the fight but couldn't find the 6 other people. We managed to pull off, but few weeks ago, like maybe at the beginning of january it was extremely hard to do so, because most people vanished from the game. Without those players, many will struggle as well.