Unukalhai: Primals and Eikons

[Alberel]

Its interesting that the book next to Unukalhai states that Sephirot was a sacred tree that was turned into a Primal. Perhaps that lies at the key. Primals are the images of a worshipper's ideal given form, while Eikons are living things raised to into 'godhood' by being turned into a primal.

This fits for Odin too. The primal Odin seems to identify as the original warrior Odin. Why a sword transformed him from a person into a primal is hard to guess. Clearly the Sword itself doesn't require worshipers to sustain its form unless it literally tempers a new host the moment the last one dies. If that was the case the player killing Odin would banish Odin for good.

So does that mean Shiva and Thordan and maybe Phoenix were infact Eikons? Again it depends on the exact definition. There is a difference between them and Sephirot and Odin. In the case of Shiva, Thordan and Phoenix we have a imagined primal summoned into a human host. In the case of Sephirot and Odin, we have a being that exists turned into a primal form of that being.

Of course its all speculation. Its just an interesting similarity shared between Sephirot and Odin, the only to confirmed Eikons we know much about.

Would this not make Phoenix an Eikon as well?

[Belhi]

Would this not make Phoenix an Eikon as well?

Perhaps and this is completely speculation.

A difference might lay though in the fact that all confirmed Eikons we know about are godified versions of something they already were. Sephirot was a sacred tree turned into god version of sacred tree. Rather than the summoners using a tree as a host they turned the very tree into a primal version of itself. Likewise Odin was a warrior trying to protect Urth and took a blade that turned him into a primal. Everything we have seen from Odin indicates that the Primal Odin still identifies as the warrior Odin.

Simply put rather than these Eikons being imagined things given form from summoning and faith, they are existing things turned into god versions of themselves through a similar process.

Why Shiva, Thordan and Phoenix might not fit this is that in all three catagories, they are imagined 'gods' that use a host. When Iceheart became Shiva she wasn't becoming a primal version of Iceheart but what she imaged Shiva to be. Likewise Thordan was taking the glorified form of his ancestor Thordan and the Knights twelve rather than a primal version of himself and the Heavensward. In the case of Phoenix, the primal takes the form of a mythical bird of Eorzean legend. Here is gets hazy because there seemed no separation between host.

Anyway this is all guess and speculation. We have nothing that says for certain either way weither Phoenix was an Eikon. Hell it gets more complex when you consider Phoenix was tempered of all things. A tempered Primal? That's outside our current understanding as well.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Pheonix wasn't tempered. Louisoix was tempered before he could turn into Aether and disapate (after he released his Primal Form) so with out The Echo him being tempered is possible.

THEN Bahamut gives him a fraction of his Aether to turn into Pheonix Once More. This is how I believe hisntempering was broken since a Primal can't temper anouther Primal.

After defeating Pheonix and returning Louisoix to his senses he then dissipates since Bahamut's temper is gone.

[Neophyte]

After the last part of the Triad-Quest (3.3) I think things are now a bit more clear...

Unukalhai was talking about 'champions' who attempted to 'contain primals' in an other world.
After those 'heros conquered god after god', with every victory they changed more and more into 'fiends' with endless appetite for aether.

So I think that an Eikon is a being, who consumed one or more primals (or their aether), turning him into a primal-like, aether-hungry creature over time, while he also becomes insane.

You could also extent the definition in such a way, that even Thordan or Estinien fit the definition of an Eikon, if the gist of the matter is 'has consumed the aether of a supreme being and got turned into a supreme being himself'.

[Alberel]

After the last part of the Triad-Quest (3.3) I think things are now a bit more clear...

Unukalhai was talking about 'champions' who attempted to 'contain primals' in an other world.
After those 'heros conquered god after god', with every victory they changed more and more into 'fiends' with endless appetite for aether.

So I think that an Eikon is a being, who consumed one or more primals (or their aether), turning him into a primal-like, aether-hungry creature over time, while he also becomes insane.

You could also extent the definition in such a way, that even Thordan or Estinien fit the definition of an Eikon, if the gist of the matter is 'has consumed the aether of a supreme being and got turned into a supreme being himself'.

Interesting interpretation. I agree there's likely some significance to the warriors of Unukulhai's world becoming monsters through exposure to primal aether. I wonder if they have any connection to the Warriors of Darkness? They too come from another world that has been lost. Whether it is the same world as Unukalhai, however, is unknown at this point.

Of course there is also another exposed to great amounts of aether from primals, gods and dragons... the Warrior of Light. They can't be drawing that parallel by coincidence.

[Nalien]

I wonder if they have any connection to the Warriors of Darkness? They too come from another world that has been lost. Whether it is the same world as Unukalhai, however, is unknown at this point.

Y'shtola did mentioned that the aether is strange around them... I almost wonder if they weren't slaying Ravana for the greater good, but were instead absorbing his aether...

Hope we're an exception to the whole Auracite Primal manipulation corruption thing... That's a pretty big step backwards on FC Primal Summoning otherwise... You're playing a dangerous game here, Unukalhai/SE... <starts sharpening tonberry knife>

[Alberel]

Y'shtola did mentioned that the aether is strange around them... I almost wonder if they weren't slaying Ravana for the greater good, but were instead absorbing his aether...

That's a great point actually. It would also explain why the PLD in their group looked so maniacal when he was looking for Nidhogg's eyes. The Warriors of Darkness are working with Elidibus though and I think it's fair to say that most of us expect the same to be true of Unukalhai. I struggle to believe he'd happily work alongside the same warriors that destroyed his world, unless he either doesn't know or there's more to it.

Hope we're an exception to the whole Auracite Primal manipulation corruption thing... That's a pretty big step backwards on FC Primal Summoning otherwise... You're playing a dangerous game here, Unukalhai/SE... <starts sharpening tonberry knife>

I think the Triad story is progressing towards the primal summoning to be honest. Yoshi has said in the past that they were waiting for a partcular story explanation for giving us the ability, and they've been bashing us around the head with the fact Azys Lla holds the key to controlling primals. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up finding an excuse to use it ourselves, though Unukalhai was adamant that no one should have that power...

[Nalien]

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up finding an excuse to use it ourselves, though Unukalhai was adamant that no one should have that power...

Perhaps that's how we get away with it... No one person will have that power, it was described as a Free Company function, after all... Plus, the way Unukalhai described it came across very much like VI, heroes carrying around stones that contain that power, with the heroes being corrupted by that pokeball on their belt... Free Company summoning sounded more like a catch and release deal, we'd put Ifrit down, trap him, then even if we don't throw him at something, we'd still eventually lose him... That sounds very much like we're being smarter about it, given recent revelations? Better to temporarily trap them and put them to good use, than let them run amok or permanently trap them and slowly go insane... Heck, we've absorbed some Primal aether anyway, that's how Summoner functions... If that has eventual negative implications... One might find it logical that we'd seek a way to expel that aether, rather than let it slowly corrupt us... Maybe Primal Summoning will be a part of that...

After the last part of the Triad-Quest (3.3) I think things are now a bit more clear...

So, I was thinking about this, and I've come to a different conclusion... Rather than this little tale being a possible origin for Eikons, I find it more likely it's an origin for the Void itself... If you've got other worlds where heroes went mad and hungered for aether, ultimately becoming twisted monsters and destroying their world... What's left? Nothing, or rather, the Void... What's in the Void? A bunch of aether-hungry monsters... Their world consumed, they're now left in the abyss looking for a way to breach barriers to other worlds to feed off their aether, that seems fairly plausible to me...