Goad - the ability that doesn't exist

[Lan_Mantear]

Yeah, I play both jobs, but being out of tp also seriously impacts dps, and paeon works for the whole pt, not using it is hurting more then just the brd. So no, I dont think there is a valid reason to not use tools SE gave you when you need them.

I said valid reason for hesitancy. Never said to not use it. There should be no hesitance on the Ninja's part. Good Ninja's never even need to be asked. They see someone with low TP, Goad, bam! done.

[Waeksyn]

I do play PLD and find if I get low on TP, i recover using flash to keep the hate. In long fight situation, I could use a goad but it's not critical. I never need it in a regular dungeon (unlike War who could use it in the same big pull situations that stresses brd aoe).

On BRD I use invigorate, keep my dots up, play songs etc. I use the dots only in situations where the mobs will be alive long enough for it to make a difference.

All of this aside, how is any of this "you aren't play brd right" an excuse for Nin doing their job? Excuse me if I don't join your race to the bottom.

[Raagnar]

I said valid reason for hesitancy. Never said to not use it. There should be no hesitance on the Ninja's part. Good Ninja's never even need to be asked. They see someone with low TP, Goad, bam! done.

I agree, and this thread seems to be about jobs not using their tools properly, not sure what you are getting at other than agreeing with me. But brds are and have always been the worst offender of not using stuff to benefit the pt. there are way more, why dont brd sing? threads then why dont nins goad? threads lol. I rarely even see brd using foe requiem for mages and that does not have a 15% reduction to dps, its purely beneficial but they never use it.

[Lan_Mantear]

I do play PLD and find if I get low on TP, i recover using flash to keep the hate. In long fight situation, I could use a goad but it's not critical. I never need it in a regular dungeon (unlike War who could use it in the same big pull situations that stresses brd aoe).

On BRD I use invigorate, keep my dots up, play songs etc. I use the dots only in situations where the mobs will be alive long enough for it to make a difference.

All of this aside, how is any of this "you aren't play brd right" an excuse for Nin doing their job? Excuse me if I don't join your race to the bottom.

I find that the wars that quickly run out of TP are also abusers of overpower. I have the opposite experience. Except for very rare occasions, I feel that war has near limitless tp. But when on DRK and especially PLD, the TP pool runs dry on long drawn-out fights. Even on something as simple as Trial Roullete. PLD TP can run low when MT.

[Lan_Mantear]

I agree, and this thread seems to be about jobs not using their tools properly, not sure what you are getting at other than agreeing with me. But brds are and have always been the worst offender of not using stuff to benefit the pt. there are way more, why dont brd sing? threads then why dont nins goad? threads lol.

I think we are agreeing on the main point, but from different perspectives. I'd just like to point out that BRDs have a penalty for using their support abilities, and by default they are already viewed as second-string dps. Which is why there is a reluctance there. Utility abilities on other dps jobs have little to no draw back.

As far as foe's is concerned. There is no excuse for not using that, besides being lazy.

[Waeksyn]

To those pointing out that bard does have a TP song, you do know that it reduces damage? Do you prefer that damage go down or that a nin just push a single button to keep the damage up and mob kills faster? Outside of long fight, lots of low TP in the party situations, I only use Army's between pulls to speed up party TP recovery in readiness for the next big pull.

[Lambdafish]

I do play PLD and find if I get low on TP, i recover using flash to keep the hate.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure using flash to restore TP is a bigger DPS loss than the BRD using Paeon, as flash doesnt do any damage, its much better for the party to give it to a PLD than a BRD because BRD should NEVER need it.

You AOE to around 300 or so TP, pop invigorate, AOE to around mid TP and cast paeon, and AOE until invigorate is back up, which you said you are doing, so I have no idea where you even need a goad.

As others have said, you could always ask if there is a spare goad going around, but you should use your own utility first, as that is what others are expecting.

[Raagnar]

I think we are agreeing on the main point. I'd just like to point out that BRDs have a penalty for using their support abilities, and by default they are already viewed as second-string dps. Which is why there is a reluctance there.

I didnt say nin should be reluctant, and there was no reason to defend bad brds by saying it takes 15%, most of us who play brd are aware of it, but that is no defense for not playing to your full potential. Face it, brd is NOT pure dps despite the holy trinity being in place here. They nerfed brd dps in the past because they had too many beneficial tools for a party. So when the pt is needing one of your buffs there is absolutely no reason to avoid using it unless you are just being lazy and lets be honest, most of us can get away with being lazy because these dungeons are easy. But we have someone bitching about nins not using goad and its incredibly ironic because its coming from a bard. Keep in mind, songs are only ever on for a few seconds, that 15% reduction is an overplayed argument, we are talking about normal dungeon content here. You rarely need songs (or goad).

[EvinnaReed]

I have a macro asking for it and I still never get it. Especially annoying on paladin.

[Mycow8me]

Oh look another thread about how the DPS jobs arent using their support abilities. Maybe cause they don't have to focus on support like an actual support job would. Trinity and all that jaz.