Tanks using their enmity combo while being OT

[WolfKid]

A bad war puts up Storm's Path, it lowers dps by a significant margin. A good war OT uses Butcher's block to keep up high DPS.

Storm's Path is always an objective DPS loss.

Be a good tank.

Don't use Path.

A WAR using Butcher's Block for DPS= good WAR

A WAR that uses Storm's Path to lower boss damage= bad WAR

Got it. Anything else you want to add?

[Syzygian]

I will say that if a DRK is tanking outside of Grit after their opener and avoiding their enmity combo (basically playing THEIR role optimally) a WAR hitting BB every other combo can sometimes need babysitting. This isn't anyone's fault though, its a design problem SE ought to fix. The two roles clash with eachother by using their optimal DPS rotations in a scenario where the DRK is MT and WAR is OT.

That being said, a WAR that keeps at least partial Path uptime... I think its a little harsh to say they're BAD.

Be a good tank.

This from the guy that has been telling the forums he's going to ragequit tanking if DPS takes a hit in patch 3.2.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

A WAR using Butcher's Block for DPS= good WAR

A WAR that uses Storm's Path to lower boss damage= bad WAR

Got it. Anything else you want to add?

Not particularly! Unless the debuff from Path is mandatory to survive a raid buster, which only ever is necessary during progression to cheese mechanics. It's a pointless ability to use in any situation where your or the raid's survivability isn't threatened.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Even with all of that, as PLD, I never had these issues unless the OT was remaning in tank stance and actively trying to take hate to troll. That or if I did something stupid like hit sprint as soon as I went to pull...

Its more likely to happen when if the Paladin is trying to MT primarily in Sword Oath or when their is a slight gear gap and the Warrior is trying to OTing something like Void Ark and inattentive enmity creep causes boss spinning. 7 more personal potency per GCD at the cost of generating 150% more enmity isn't really worth it for the potential problems it will cause in my opinion. Especially when -10% damage inflicted by the boss should allow the Healers and MT to DpS more.

A lot of players miss that slight losses in one place can lead to bigger gains elsewhere.

But even that lower PLD generation should change this month.

Yes, that is true, but as of right now the OP's complaint is an actual (if only minor) problem. Hopefully it will be fixed without creating others.

And those full VIT tanks that have trouble with hate will change too.

The Str/Vit divide does make things worse, but that doesn't change that this is an underlying problem.

Not particularly! Unless the debuff from Path is mandatory to survive a raid buster, which only ever is necessary during progression to cheese mechanics. It's a pointless ability to use in any situation where your or the raid's survivability isn't threatened.

Even if that 10% less damage would lead to an increase in Healer DpS greater than your own loss in personal DpS?

[WolfKid]

Not particularly! Unless the debuff from Path is mandatory to survive a raid buster, which only ever is necessary during progression to cheese mechanics. It's a pointless ability to use in any situation where your or the raid's survivability isn't threatened.

Storm's Path a useless ability?! I never knew.....

[Whiteroom]

Its more likely to happen when if the Paladin is trying to MT primarily in Sword Oath or when their is a slight gear gap and the Warrior is trying to OTing something like Void Ark and inattentive enmity creep causes boss spinning. 7 more personal potency per GCD at the cost of generating 150% more enmity isn't really worth it for the potential problems it will cause in my opinion. Especially when -10% damage inflicted by the boss should allow the Healers and MT to DpS more.

A lot of players miss that slight losses in one place can lead to bigger gains elsewhere.


Yes, that is true, but as of right now the OP's complaint is an actual (if only minor) problem. Hopefully it will be fixed without creating others.


The Str/Vit divide does make things worse, but that doesn't change that this is an underlying problem.



Even if that 10% less damage would lead to an increase in Healer DpS greater than your own loss in personal DpS?

Tbh. If it's DF, just suck it up and throw in another enmity attack or two(not directed at you, at the conversation as a whole), most times you get OTs that will do far less.damage than any loss being discussed here, so be happy they are doing something right. In progression, where those finer points matter, the tanks should be communicating enough that this is a non issue.

[Lyth]

Also, bear in mind that the above discussion applies to collaborative tanking scenarios where MT and OT are working together to maximize raid dps. It doesn't really apply to situations in which two tanks are spamming their RoH, BB, or PS combos to determine who is truly more metal.

Just doing some napkin math, the BB combo does about 797 enmity potency per hit and SE does 203 (alternating between the two averages to 500). On DA SE is about 267, Del is 226 and PS is 857. Even when you factor in Grit, DA SE becomes 614 and Del becomes 519 before accounting for the damage reduction modifier. If you're both trying to maximize your respective dps, it can be tight at times, and there are going to be moments when one of you will have to make a compromise.

Enmity is always the tank's responsibility. But even though we sometimes view OT as a form of specialized dps class, it still is a tank, and its actions (even ones used to maximize dps) have inbuilt enmity modifiers that can rival (if not exceed) the enmity of being in tank stance. Accidentally taking enmity as OT is like messing up a tank swap. It's an error, not a sign of exceptional dps.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Even if that 10% less damage would lead to an increase in Healer DpS greater than your own loss in personal DpS?

A competent healer isn't going to notice a 2000 damage attack hitting for 1800. I have never seen a difference between a tank using storm's path and one not when it comes to damage taken, nor have I ever noticed an appreciable difference as a tank in the amount of damage in taking. If my Storm's Path is causing that Much of a dps increase in a situation where only the MT is being hit, they seriously need to learn how to use cooldowns. At that point it's a DPS increase for me to take over.

[Galgarion]

What's the big deal about just sticking to storm's eye while dpsing? All I'm hearing here is "You don't tell me what to do, Chile! Amma Grooooooown up, amma do whadda want!/sassyhandflip."

[Crater]

A bad war puts up Storm's Path, it lowers dps by a significant margin. A good war OT uses Butcher's block to keep up high DPS.

A better WAR OT uses consecutive Storm's Eye combos if they're anywhere close to pulling aggro, instead of mindlessly rotating SE->BB, because the 20 potency the WAR loses by dropping from BB to SE is absolutely dwarved by the 60-80 potency that the DRK or PLD MT gains by upgrading from RoH/PS to Del/DA SE/RA.