Tanks using their enmity combo while being OT

[Lyth]

Also, bear in mind that the above discussion applies to collaborative tanking scenarios where MT and OT are working together to maximize raid dps. It doesn't really apply to situations in which two tanks are spamming their RoH, BB, or PS combos to determine who is truly more metal.

Just doing some napkin math, the BB combo does about 797 enmity potency per hit and SE does 203 (alternating between the two averages to 500). On DA SE is about 267, Del is 226 and PS is 857. Even when you factor in Grit, DA SE becomes 614 and Del becomes 519 before accounting for the damage reduction modifier. If you're both trying to maximize your respective dps, it can be tight at times, and there are going to be moments when one of you will have to make a compromise.

Enmity is always the tank's responsibility. But even though we sometimes view OT as a form of specialized dps class, it still is a tank, and its actions (even ones used to maximize dps) have inbuilt enmity modifiers that can rival (if not exceed) the enmity of being in tank stance. Accidentally taking enmity as OT is like messing up a tank swap. It's an error, not a sign of exceptional dps.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Even if that 10% less damage would lead to an increase in Healer DpS greater than your own loss in personal DpS?

A competent healer isn't going to notice a 2000 damage attack hitting for 1800. I have never seen a difference between a tank using storm's path and one not when it comes to damage taken, nor have I ever noticed an appreciable difference as a tank in the amount of damage in taking. If my Storm's Path is causing that Much of a dps increase in a situation where only the MT is being hit, they seriously need to learn how to use cooldowns. At that point it's a DPS increase for me to take over.

[Ultimatecalibur]

A competent healer isn't going to notice a 2000 damage attack hitting for 1800. I have never seen a difference between a tank using storm's path and one not when it comes to damage taken, nor have I ever noticed an appreciable difference as a tank in the amount of damage in taking. If my Storm's Path is causing that Much of a dps increase in a situation where only the MT is being hit, they seriously need to learn how to use cooldowns. At that point it's a DPS increase for me to take over.

They may not notice the single hits, but the good healers do notice when it takes 5 rather than 4 attacks to knock the tank below half hp as it gives them time to do another attack before healing the MT up.

[Galgarion]

What's the big deal about just sticking to storm's eye while dpsing? All I'm hearing here is "You don't tell me what to do, Chile! Amma Grooooooown up, amma do whadda want!/sassyhandflip."

[Kotemon]

I rather tanks use enmity combos every so often over pure dps for the sake of not seeing the MT die and the boss heads over to the mage or one of the healers because OT isn't a warrior in the top 3 of the boss' to do list. With that said if OT in pure dps mode with no enmity combos is fighting hate, then MT should let it go and switch to OT. The only time to complain is when said OT is in tank stance the whole time. Remember if the MT dies should it go to the healer/mage/dps roam or to the next tank. But since OT is a warrior its more or less due to it being their better dps rotations. The next question to this would be, how many warriors are present and are any ninjas involved? In theory one warrior could do Path and the other Eye. But ninjas also have a slashing debuff and does it matter if warrior OT and ninja both use their slashing debuff?

[NovaLevossida]

I haven't tanked since first Coil back at launch, but I strongly remember having to avoid using Butcher's Block combos at times to avoid ripping hate off the PLD. He had gotten his (myth? been a long time) body piece first while I spent tomes on a Bravura. It only took one moment of ripping hate off of him to cause a wipe and after that I always watched my enmity.

I get the "it's less DPS if I don't" mentality, but let's be honest here. It's a net DPS loss for the group if your pulling hate off the main tank adversely affects the group, and most of the time it will. But that's just normal with this game compared to XI: 14's spam all your abilities as fast as you can and if something goes wrong it's the fault of the guy not giving 110% vs. 11's feeling out enmity levels and holding back on your DPS so you don't rip hate off the tank. I get that you shouldn't have to in 14 if everything is played optimally, but if everything were going optimally you'd never ever wipe in this game either. I live in (and try to adjust my play to) the practical world however.

[Jpec07]

Nothing quite like getting that level 50 trial on my 204 PLD and tearing off the WAR or DRK MT while I'm in Sword Oath and Str gear when I pop Fight or Flight, because my Rage of Halone combo is literally the only thing I have to work with.

Though I suppose being a good player means knowing not only how to hit the throttle, but when not to.

So to that end, I suppose I could open with a few Riot Blade combos instead, just to let the MT get a hate lead.

[SpookyGhost]

*slides in*

Path is situational - in any situation where you Path'd, you could've Eye'd or Block'd. Path doesn't provide enough healer GCDs generally for it to be worth keeping up consistently at the damage loss you take on top of the fact that said extra healer GCDs can miss. Path, however, is good for AOEs, tank busters, etc.

Usually people think that it's either Eye -> BB or Eye -> Path, however there is another path you can take called Eye -> Eye - which is only a 20 potency loss. So if you don't need Path and you fear you're creeping too much on the aggro ladder, just Eye -> Eye.

*slides out*

[Tint]

i have a bit trouble with warriors too. i understand why they use the aggro combo and yes they should use it for more damage. but i just started tanking. so i am a fresh dark knight and i find it a bit tricky to not run out of mana while keeping the aggro when there is a war ot ^^;

[Galgarion]

i have a bit trouble with warriors too. i understand why they use the aggro combo and yes they should use it for more damage. but i just started tanking. so i am a fresh dark knight and i find it a bit tricky to not run out of mana while keeping the aggro when there is a war ot ^^;

Use shadow skin, turn grit off, activate blood weapon. No mo mana problems.