Endgame DRG Armor

[RyuRoots]

Because people enjoy supporting what they like (or love). It's actually not a foreign concept, you know. Not to mention, for every service, there deserves compensation. We already get free outfits and such as sub rewards every few months, too.

You can pay 15 bucks a month for a gym membership that has access to all their facilities, but that doesn't mean you get Gatorade and protein bars for free. Sub MMO's don't really operate much differently, and I'd say you shouldn't take for granted the freebies we already do get.

FREEBIES. Wow. This is a new level of white-knighting absurdity. No one goes to a gym to collect gatorade or protein bars either, smart guy. Yeah, it IS true that you only technically get access to the servers for your sub fee, but there's a degree of player trust that what they get access to will be worthwhile and that they won't be nickel and dimed because they are already supporting what they love with their money. I don't think you understand what a "freebie" is.

[Nominous]

No one goes to a gym to collect gatorade or protein bars either, smart guy.

For one, you're making the assumption that I think everyone's going around explicitly trying to 'collect' free stuff from subscriptions and memberships. I'm just saying- there is a such thing as an extraneous offering. Something that is by every meaning of the word, 'optional'. People seem to not understand what this means when it comes to gaming. It's like people understand this concept when applied to literally anything else, like it doesn't apply to gaming (I assure you, business is business, it does).

Nothing in this game is free, all should be granted to me by just buying it and keeping my subscription up.
Microtransactions are the cancer of the gaming industry from gamers perspective,

And from the opposite perspective, not meeting their investors, or company's sales goals is no better. If they don't, the game could easily be considered a failure in their eyes, and then it'd be shut down. The alternative to shutting it down, would be the state it's already in but worse- not being given enough funding from SE. If they can't show SE it's worth the funding through good sales, then it just won't be funded.

This just extends to worse problems for the game overall. Less raids, less new jobs, less time to balance, or add any new content.

So really, the better option is to let the few people who want to be the 'cancer' apparently, do what they do and fund the game YOU want to play for the minimum price of entry. This is how it's always been. The few pay for the many. You can be mad all you want, but any extra money they get from things like Cash Shop go towards a better experience for you. The same way that EA has the ability to take risks on games like Mirror's Edge Catalyst (of which the original sold TERRIBLY) because of all the money the 'cancer' made them.

[Nalien]

And obviously it's something that's working for most companies, because it's still here.

Yeah, it's working real great for WoW. Record subscriber losses, but what's that? They're still making plenty of money off it?

Having 100k subscribers, all paying 15$ a month, or having 50k subscribers, paying the same 15$ a month, but also willing to pay 15$ frequently in the cash shop? Which is better?

From a corporate stand point, the later. From a players standpoint though?

but any extra money they get from things like Cash Shop go towards a better experience for you.

In theory. In practice?

So far we've gotten EU servers. That's... About it? Perhaps the cash shop has finally afforded them a solution to housing come 3.3, but I wont hold my breath. Meanwhile the content they have been delivering has begun to be unimpressive, to say the least. We've had two major delays, back to back (Heavenswards release, and 3.1 because apparently SE can't schedule vacation time properly). We've had crap like Lords of Verminion and Diadem. People are starting to wake up and realize how recycled much of the games content is.

What better experience has the cash shop afforded me exactly? What's the major difference between Pharos Sirius (Hard) and the original Pharos Sirius? How is Diadem any better than Hunts? How much old content is actually improved upon, rather than just recycled? They seriously need to take that cash shop money, and hire some people with a damned sense of how to design content, because content has taken a step back, not forwards, or at best it has stagnated.

Ironically, PvP is where I perhaps see the most improvement in this game... Glad I enjoy PvP... Everywhere else though? They've streamlined content down to a fine art, rather than innovating or trying new things... The difference between Sastasha and Antitower? The mobs I burn down and the box I'm playing in. They haven't improved dungeons or done anything different with them. The same, to an extend, goes for Trials and Raids. When they do try to innovate, there is clearly an utter lack of any attempt at such a thing... Diadem is just a pretty box to play in. They just slapped Hunts in there (despite Hunts questionable popularity) and threw Gathering on top and called it a day, despite the obvious issues a choice like that presents (gatherers not contributing but casting lot on gear, for example). There was no attempt to work Hunts differently (and some how they're surprised when groups teamed up in Diadem in the same way they team up for Hunts...), there was no attempt to work gathering into the actual event in any meaningful way (slap temporary items to help in combat in the chests gatherers dig up, that ones free, SE). Props to the guys that made the zone and enemies, but the guys that made the event messed up. Lets not forget Relics, too... Oh look, despite extra money from the cash shop and months of subscription fees, we get... Pretty much a condensed version of the Zodiac weapon grind with the only new piece of content being the weapons themselves...

In a recent interview Yoshida mentioned how they're perhaps looking to hire content designers, and I hope to God they do, because the game really needs it at this point... The current guys putting this stuff together are just recycling the same tired ideas... Guys working on PvP are at least listening to the community and addressing some (though sadly not all) of the concerns of the PvP community. On the PvE side we're just getting the same stuff over and over, despite consistent complaints over the stuff... They clearly need some new blood coming up with ideas, because right now it seems they're going "People didn't like Atma... Oh well, lets give them Atma again!".

[Nominous]

Yeah, it's working real great for WoW. Record subscriber losses, but what's that? They're still making plenty of money off it?

Having 100k subscribers, all paying 15$ a month, or having 50k subscribers, paying the same 15$ a month, but also willing to pay 15$ frequently in the cash shop? Which is better?

From a corporate stand point, the later. From a players standpoint though?

It's a slippery slope. I don't like that FFXIV has a Cash Shop for that one specific reason. However, they made a pretty particular stance on it, because they know that. And I believe the only reason WoW does stay alive is because of it's veterans AND Cash Shop, not current loyal subscribers. They have millions of veterans that will buy an expansion to see how it is, and buy these level up tickets in the Cash Shop so they can skip grind, and buy these new mounts they missed, etc etc. It's the veteran whales that keep it alive.

XI would have been the better example, as it stayed alive without one for years, even AFTER XIV. However, development costs are not nearly as high for new areas/raids, and a lot of the newer stuff in the game was just balance changes/ more levels to put into things.

And as to your other question, Cash Shop isn't a 1:1, "You give us this you get this". It's one of those things where investors and SE probably have a bigger say in. As an exaggeration, if they see x game makes 0 dollars, they can't exactly make a good argument for why it deserves any more money. So as a rough rule, not exact, Cash Shop is only a benefit, because the more money they can rake in from loose ends, the more they can prove the game is worth more than SE is giving it. That's not to say the player should have to foot the bill for this, but it is to say that sometimes the ends justify the means. Especially true when they've shown us that despite having a Cash Shop, they'd barely add many outfits to it, while adding tons through crafting recipes, tomes, and other means.

[Nalien]

So as a rough rule, not exact, Cash Shop is only a benefit, because the more money they can rake in from loose ends, the more they can prove the game is worth more than SE is giving it.

My concern is that this isn't happening. I get the sense SE is taking the majority of profits from XIV, and investing them elsewhere. One wonders where they got the money to finally dust off VII...

That makes sense, of course, but SE really needs to invest in XIV more IMO. The music, lore and world they've created are truly great, but the way stuff is being delivered to us at this point... It leaves something to be desired... The game is great, but the gameplay is lacking...

Hopefully Yoshida was serious when he said they were looking to hire new content designers, and profits from XIV can convince SE to invest in that sort of thing, but I'll believe it when I see it... Once bitten, twice shy, when they announced Diadem that is what I was hoping for, a sign that they're doing something differently at last, instead I got the same tired Hunt formula, followed up by Anima weapons being almost a carbon copy of Zodiacs quest objectives... When I see stuff like that alongside the cash shop, it goes from a harmless little bonus to a deadly tumor. If they want to continue justifying the cash shop, they're going to have to start showing me the benefits, because right now all I see is the EU server...

[Kaiser-Ace]

My concern is that this isn't happening. I get the sense SE is taking the majority of profits from XIV, and investing them elsewhere. One wonders where they got the money to finally dust off VII...

The thing is, that's all investors. They see "Oh, since we've got this new project that we'll drag out to make billions, lets take some of the spare millions of Tabata, Nomura, and Yoshida's budgets so we can fund this stupidly over priced idea that's probably going to be poorly received anyway." And all the dev teams can do is silently weep as their budgets are drained with out any say in the matter.

The Devs are as much slaves to the corporate big wigs as we are. At least Yoshida's team seems to view us as more than just bank accounts and credit card numbers.

[RyuRoots]

For one, you're making theassumption that I think everyone's going around explicitly trying to 'collect' free stuff from subscriptions and memberships. I'm just saying- there is a such thing as an extraneous offering. Something that is by every meaning of the word, 'optional'. People seem to not understand what this means when it comes to gaming. It's like people understand this concept when applied to literally anything else, like it doesn't apply to gaming (I assure you, business is business, it does).

What? You clearly don't understand what you're reading since I implied nothing of the sort. I'm saying that many people play specifically for glamours and such. What I take issue with is describing what you pay for every month as "free", because it really isn't. We're not playing a free-to-play game, we're playing a game where you fork over cash every month. This line of logic might work for some single-player games where you buy it once and then the devs churn out extra stuff that you can buy if you're interested in. That's not what's happening here. It's chunks and pieces that easily could and should be in the game that are being chopped up and sold piecemeal.

Funny thing is that I actually don't have anything against people that use it, since I have. Not because I like it, but I just gave up. Certain things I want and I know nothing is gonna change the system we have, so screw it. I've gotten a fair number of gifts from friends from the shop too so eh. Do what you want with your own money, but don't try to pretend that this is somehow a good or reasonable state of affairs when you don't seem to be aware that "optional content" as you put it, was at one time something you got WITH your purchase, not in addition to it.

[Nominous]

It's chunks and pieces that easily could and should be in the game that are being chopped up and sold piecemeal.

I mean, you'd have to go by the assumption that there's no budget plan, or that their development team has the money and time to do whatever they want. I don't really think that's the way it is, but who am I to say, really. I just know that I've seen business plans from a couple places I've worked, and there's ridiculous expectations for how much money your store should be making. I'd imagine it works similarly with MMO's. If that's the case, they probably just chose the lesser of two evils- implementing things they'd love to for free (but can't justify the budget for, since it messes with sales plans) for a cost.