If best way is the only...why do we see different setups ?

[Reynhart]

Legitimate question here.
Everywhere in these parts, we see how <insert_job> is weak or how people always find and use only the best path...

If that is so, why do we see so much different setups in videos ?

At Savage release, everyone jumped the bandwagons "PLD sucks", "MCH is garbage", "AST is dumb", etc...
Yet, it's not uncommon to see clear videos with approximately any job as soon as early september, when A4S world first was only 23rd of August.

If that's the case, isn't it just saying that people are still basically playing what they want and not automatically reroll towards "What is best" ?

Maybe people still think playing the game is...for fun.

By the way, in one of those A3S clear videos, one PLD had over 19k HP, so he probably had some vitality on its right side, too

[Andrea]

Any class can clear any content. However there is obviously a best case party setup for every single content.

There are some who will switch classes if they think another class is better and some who don't, this goes for any game really.

I also dont think there is a person out their who isn't actually playing for fun. If someone is playing something they dont find fun anymore that to me sounds like an addiction.

[Reynhart]

Any class can clear any content. However there is obviously a best case party setup for every single content.

I see that, but, unless you're competing for world first, it doesn't matter that much, in the end.
Especially compared to how "fresh" it would feel to have more jobs, or more customization.

[SendohJin]

I see that, but, unless you're competing for world first, it doesn't matter that much, in the end.
Especially compared to how "fresh" it would feel to have more jobs, or more customization.

it doesn't matter if your group is willing to wait.

it's very possible that given everything else being the same, a group can clear X content with 6 weeks of Eso gear playing the "best" roles but that same group will need 10 weeks with "sub-par" roles.

some groups where the skill level is lower even with full i200 Eso gear won't be able to clear and they needed to wait till 3.1 so that they can get i210 upgrade items and i205 weapons.

some players even at full i210 won't clear and they are going to have to wait till 3.2 and even higher iLv and echo.

the question is do the players in these groups have the patience to survive weeks of failing. some of them can, some of them can't.

[Ibi]

The best way isn't the only way. It's just the best way. The fact that the A4S first clear on Chinese servers was by a relatively ungeared group (together with the various things groups like Lucrezia have done at very low item levels) shows that perfection is far from necessary.

Nor is the best way in general the same thing as the best way for a specific group or individual. If someone is more comfortable on a particular job, it's possible for them to perform better with it than with a job that may, on paper, be superior.

[Kaurie]

The best way isn't the only way. It's just the best way.

I completely agree with this, but isn't that the argument of the whole illusion of choice, that the best way is the only way?

[Ibi]

I completely agree with this, but isn't that the argument of the whole illusion of choice, that the best way is the only way?

I think "illusion of choice" gets incorrectly applied to a lot of situations where there actually is a legitimate choice. It comes to down to whether the choice is being made on objective or subjective grounds.

It's valid for something like simple gear choices and simple stats. If I'm a DPS evaluating two pieces of gear for a slot, neither one of them changes how I play the class (this part is important and I'll come back to it in a bit), and one of them will make me do more damage than the other, the choice here is clearly an illusion. I have the option to "choose" to use the piece of gear that will make me do less damage, but since my goal as a DPS is to do more damage, there's no reason to do so.

Choosing between two different classes to play, however, is not something that can be simplified to a correct or incorrect decision. FFLogs shows monk having generally higher DPS than dragoon, but if someone is personally better with dragoon's rotation or enjoys playing dragoon more or is in a group where someone else is already playing monk then the correct decision may be to play dragoon even though monk has the higher DPS potential. There's no illusion to the choice here; both options have pros and cons.

I mentioned above that it's important that a piece of gear needs to not change the way you play a class in order for the choice to be an illusion. I say that because it's perfectly possible to have gear that presents genuine choices, but it usually requires more creativity. Take bard, for example. A piece of gear with an effect like "Raging Strikes Effect +5%" is probably going to end up being either superior or inferior to the alternatives. If it's superior, you'll use it, if it's inferior, you won't. It's a more interesting stat than Determination or Skill Speed, but it's still probably an illusion.

But what if you had a piece of gear that changed how Wanderer's Paeon worked. Instead of +30% damage and moving interrupting your casts, what if it now gave +20% damage, allowed you to cast while moving, but added a 50% heavy effect? Or if you had a piece of gear with noticeably less DEX than similar gear in the tier, but it slowly accumulated up to three charges and each charge let you move without interrupting a cast once?

Now you're making a choice between higher damage and increased flexibility. If you're skill and comfort levels are high enough that you can manage your rotation perfectly in spite of the mechanics of a given fight, you're likely looking at the first option. But if you're new to a fight or there's a mechanic you have trouble with, maybe the other options would let you personally do more DPS by reducing the penalty of movement.

Um, hadn't that group with the first clear on the chinese servers, previously played on Japanese servers as well, cleared A4S there, and practiced a specific strategy to enable them to clear it far more quickly than others on the Chinese Servers?

Yes, but I'm not sure that changes anything about what I said.

Unless no alternative route to completion exists, the best way is not the only way.

[Kosmos992k]

The best way isn't the only way. It's just the best way. The fact that the A4S first clear on Chinese servers was by a relatively ungeared group (together with the various things groups like Lucrezia have done at very low item levels) shows that perfection is far from necessary.

Nor is the best way in general the same thing as the best way for a specific group or individual. If someone is more comfortable on a particular job, it's possible for them to perform better with it than with a job that may, on paper, be superior.

Um, hadn't that group with the first clear on the chinese servers, previously played on Japanese servers as well, cleared A4S there, and practiced a specific strategy to enable them to clear it far more quickly than others on the Chinese Servers?

[Yukiko]

Try to fullequip one job and then try same with 2 others...
Most players already switched tank away from PLD, same with healers and DPS...
You will see that after a few more months because weekly caps its not as if you can switch class within one day!

[Reynhart]

Most players already switched tank away from PLD, same with healers and DPS...

Most of the tanks who switched from PLD thinking they'd clear Savage still failed for months before succeeding...that is to say, far far after having a PLD wasn't an issue anymore.

They just did that "because the elite said so", without realizing that it's not because they had the best setup, but because they are the best players.

True. However, when you do the encounters a couple of weeks later (better gear and what not), it does not mean the "best" way isn't best anymore.

I'm not saying it's not the best, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter.
In regards to customization, it's not because the elite players will find the best build for any job that the vast majority (emphasis on vast) will have no issue whatsoever playing and enjoying their character with a more peculiar build.