If best way is the only...why do we see different setups ?

[abzoluut]

I see that, but, unless you're competing for world first, it doesn't matter that much, in the end.
Especially compared to how "fresh" it would feel to have more jobs, or more customization.

True. However, when you do the encounters a couple of weeks later (better gear and what not), it does not mean the "best" way isn't best anymore. It just means that people will find ways to make up for shortcomings a certain job (or setup) has. Fact remains that the best setup would have been better.

[RiceisNice]

Um, hadn't that group with the first clear on the chinese servers play on Japanese servers as well, and had cleared A$S there, and practiced a specific strategy to enable them to clear it far more quickly than others on the Chinese Servers?

There's a lot more variables that don't make it as clear cut, either. Something like a4s can be a bump in the road for caster dps because of the mana drain. They also had more weeks of Alexander normal to gear up. And triple melee setup wouldn't be feasible in 3.2 if you're relying on lb to clutch kills.

[Ironos]

I'll say that, while only have cleared A1S, I've kept playing my PLD despite getting insulted and sometimes outright harassed in Duty Finder for "slowing them down" or "being suboptimal" (Before anyone says to git gud, note that these comments usually come at the start of a run, when they see a PLD tank, before they even see how I preform.) In fact, there was certain individual on my server, whose name will obviously not be said, who, until recently, kept Job locking his PF's for Thordan EX to WAR/DRK because he had such a bias against PLD.

People will still gravitate towards what everyone considers the best because of this game has effectively turned into an efficiency simulator. Even if the other "worse" jobs/strategies can clear content, people will prefer the jobs/strategies because they're faster or offer less of a chance of failure. Or simply because they read something on the internet that says "lol, PLD/AST/MCH/whatever sux" and nothing on the internet can be wrong, right?

[Andrea]

In fact, there was certain individual on my server, whose name will obviously not be said, who, until recently, kept Job locking his PF's for Thordan EX to WAR/DRK because he had such a bias against PLD.

TBF, people have the choice of what they want in PF, so them setting it to exclude any class is ok, stupid, but ok.

Though I feel that a party that is excluding jobs just because they think they are bad (PLD/AST/MCH as you say) is one you shouldn't feel overly bad about not being able to get into. Not the type of people I feel I'd want to play with.

[Ironos]

TBF, people have the choice of what they want in PF, so them setting it to exclude any class is ok, stupid, but ok.

Though I feel that a party that is excluding jobs just because they think they are bad (PLD/AST/MCH as you say) is one you shouldn't feel overly bad about not being able to get into. Not the type of people I feel I'd want to play with.

Oh, I'm not denying their right to deny whatever Job they want in their own PF. They were well within their right to exclude PLD or whatever else they want. I was just using that as an example as to how people blatantly exclude or avoid certain Jobs because they view them as "bad" for whatever reason.

[Reynhart]

TBF, people have the choice of what they want in PF, so them setting it to exclude any class is ok, stupid, but ok.

That's exactly why everything should be available via the Duty Finder right away.
It's stupid to restrict queuing because "it will be difficult to clear the content".

[Andrea]

That's exactly why everything should be available via the Duty Finder right away.
It's stupid to restrict queuing because "it will be difficult to clear the content".

Oh I agree everything should be in the DF straight away. If people want to DF for something even if others claim theres no chance to clear in DF they should have the right to do so.

[Ossom]

Oh I agree everything should be in the DF straight away. If people want to DF for something even if others claim theres no chance to clear in DF they should have the right to do so.

I agree with this, but we run into a resource limit. For some reason or another, theres a cap on the number of instances SE can have running at the same time, this has been the case since beta when they had people who couldn't complete the main story quests because everyone was on the same instances and unable to actually get in for hours at a time.

Nothing much has changed because there is still a resource limit (and probably a resource limit based on a particular fight for every fight, i.e. some servers dedicated to raid, some servers dedicated to expert dungeons, some servers dedicated to trials, pvp, etc..) If this is the case, then opening up Savage fights in DF immediately will be an issue when you now see multiple people who individually queue for it and constantly go for it every moment they are logged on, but not make any progress, because it is inherently DF.

This will then lock out groups who have reserved times among themselves to raid, meaning they either need to wait around during their raid time, or move their raid hours, or break their group.

So what you see in the long run is more people doing Savage (Alex Savage 1), but less people clearing it and advancing, causing even more people to quit.

SE clearly expects each of these fights to take time, far more time to learn than you can gain in a DF instance and so they don't put it in DF because they would just eat resources. Even if you, yourself know the fight, all you need is 1 or 2 people in the instance to not know the fight for you guys to not make any progress.

[Jim_Berry]

I'll say that, while only have cleared A1S, I've kept playing my PLD despite getting insulted and sometimes outright harassed in Duty Finder for "slowing them down" or "being suboptimal" (Before anyone says to git gud, note that these comments usually come at the start of a run, when they see a PLD tank, before they even see how I preform.) In fact, there was certain individual on my server, whose name will obviously not be said, who, until recently, kept Job locking his PF's for Thordan EX to WAR/DRK because he had such a bias against PLD.

People will still gravitate towards what everyone considers the best because of this game has effectively turned into an efficiency simulator. Even if the other "worse" jobs/strategies can clear content, people will prefer the jobs/strategies because they're faster or offer less of a chance of failure. Or simply because they read something on the internet that says "lol, PLD/AST/MCH/whatever sux" and nothing on the internet can be wrong, right?

Aaaaaand this is why I'm mostly a solo player, because our community has higher expectations for content and what roles they want in. I like, though, how they lock out PLD, then later are still looking for a WAR/DRK (because they didn't clear the first few times).

[Bashum]

Aaaaaand this is why I'm mostly a solo player, because our community has higher expectations for content and what roles they want in. I like, though, how they lock out PLD, then later are still looking for a WAR/DRK (because they didn't clear the first few times).

Heh yeah, and I saw someone with a Thordan "clear" party who as a paladin, restricted the second tank to another PLD or DRK. Must have been someone with no experience MTing and wanted the ideal "main tank". Because it's impossible for a warrior to MT that right?

Needless to say, his PF kept popping back up about every 10 minutes all night lol.