Job Uniquiness, how?

[Jasmine_Aurelia]

I'm actually terrified of this, as they haven't explained HOW they are going to do it. To me the only thing XVI has going for it is I can put any ability I learn from any class (Or pretty much any ability) and make MY OWN CLASS.

I'm terrified, horrified and waiting with absolute fear, that in the name of making classes more "Unique" we will be kept from loading out abilities as we wish. Am I the only one with this undying fear?

[Akumu]

I'm actually terrified of this, as they haven't explained HOW they are going to do it. To me the only thing XVI has going for it is I can put any ability I learn from any class (Or pretty much any ability) and make MY OWN CLASS.

I'm terrified, horrified and waiting with absolute fear, that in the name of making classes more "Unique" we will be kept from loading out abilities as we wish. Am I the only one with this undying fear?

I wouldn't say terrified since there have been some good possible directions based on his quotes in interviews on this matter. I am however more anxious more than anything which is why its hard for me to get on the game recently. I am really hoping the team decides among there choices and present what made the cut in a few days.

[Jedgar]

Creating Job uniqueness and keeping the same skill swapping system is easy enough if you:

1. Limit the types of skills that can be swapped around. (Don't need PUG's casing Curaga 3)
2. Limit the power of the skill that was transferred. (Have Cure heal for 3/4th of the normal amount if swapped).

[Jasmine_Aurelia]

Limiting the skills that can be swapped is a non answer for me, it limits options, ANYTHING that limits options is NOT an Answer.

I wouldn't mind limiting effectiveness though, so long as it's not an absurd cut, (3/4ths would be Fine, 1/4th effective normal would NOT.

[Aldarin]

I agree, the sandbox feeling of the game is what makes FFXIV different from FFXI. The reason why I switched was the ability to make my own class. I'm want a game that allows for the creation of a Viable Gish, a RDM that focuses on the enhancement of attacks rather than healing nuking or debuffing. The closest so far has been FFXI, but still not there yet.

I'm sure there are many players who have always had the desire to play a certain character, which might not fit into the classic job descriptions. If job uniqueness is implemented in the wrong way than this could remove the viability of such custom classes, which so far is the main difference between FFXI and FFXIV. I have no desire to simply see a sequel of FFXI, which is what this could do if implemented badly. I also feel that while players are asking for Class Uniqueness, what they are really asking for is Player Uniqueness, which requires an entirely different solution.

[Heartfire]

Unfortunately, if they limit the usefulness of an ability when it is cross-classed, then there aren't a lot of skills that should even be cross classed. It implies that the character should only be using skills from their class, but that we have the option to gimp ourselves if we want to.

But if we keep the ability to cross class every skill with little-to-no repercussions, then we face the inevitability that there will be no uniqueness or defined roles in parties. As an RPG, we have groups. We also have roles that people should play in a group. The classes, as of now, are very bland. Everyone can play everything as anything. That isn't really unique.

A lot of people seem to feel that being able to use abilities from every class is a good thing. I hate to be the odd man out, but I really think that this system would be better suited for a single-player game, and not an MMO.

Think about it. If you don't have to give anything up, then why would you? Just level every class to 50 and use the best abilities of each one. I'm sure no one else will ever think to use only the good spells and abilities.... As is, all the classes play the same anyway. So it wouldn't even matter what weapon you're using as your "main class." You'd still play exactly like everyone else.


This is why we need class definition. There needs to be a healer class, an offensive caster class, a support class, a tank class, and all of the damage classes need to feel different from each other.

That's not to say we can't have some cross-classing skills. But it's ridiculous that a rank one gladiator can cast Shadowsear and kill things ten levels above them. At that point, why not just play a Thaumaturge?


I can understand the fear of losing something that you think you're working for. But if we're working in a flawed system, then what's it worth of our work anyway?

That's just my two gil. I hope you're not afraid anymore... but if you are, then maybe reevaluate what about it makes you afraid.

[Jasmine_Aurelia]

Indeed, I feel this is a hot button issue, and I want to know what the devs are thinking before they try and implement changes.

Like Aldarin, I think the only thing this game has going for it is the ability to make my own class, crafting is cool, and great, except for the fact I need to be a lvl 20 in some class to make a lvl 7 weapon... but that's a different issue. The graphics are also good, but that's to be expected. The Quests aren't there yet, though I have yet to try out the new side-quest lines. The gear choice to me is seemingly lack luster, only one weapon seems to be available for any given level..the parties are...non existant. The Guildleves have an awful timer..

The ONLY good thing really is the ability to MAKE my own class, and I'm terrified of that being taken away because people want to look at a mage class and say "Healer", look at a Gladiator and say "Tank" ect. If I want to be a gladiator that casts black magic and white magic I should be able to!

[Jedgar]

I also feel that while players are asking for Class Uniqueness, what they are really asking for is Player Uniqueness, which requires an entirely different solution.

This pretty much hit the nail on the head. Now I cant remember where but one of these "Job Uniqueness" threads stated that what weapon you put in your hand plus what skills you equip determine what "Job/Class" your character is. i.e.

Gladiator + Sword + Cure = Paladin

I think that it's just up to us to finally go about and use this. Yet I still stand my my original statement that when a skill is swapped it should be limited on how effective it is, and that certain skills should not be swapped for certain weapon combo. Otherwise we'll once again end up with "Cookie-Cutter" job descriptions but with everyone on pretty much the same weapon + skill combo.

EDIT: Heres the link to the thread I was talking about. It's in the OP
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Jobs-dev1033

[Jasmine_Aurelia]

Heartfire, having just read your post I am still afraid, because I don't care about what you seem to care about, I want to be able to define my own role and class. As it is, it is possible to essentially make your own class by combining different abilities. What you are describing would make this MMO exactly like every other MMO... I want something different. I don't want to be forced to play a certain role just because I'm holding a staff or a sword or something. I like the idea of being able to buff and heal while holding say a spear, and still be able to dish out decent damage.

The reality is that the "best" abilities of each class are very subjective, and you will never be able to equip every good ability all at once. Furthermore, you're forgetting that different weapons have different inherent bonuses... you aren't going to to throw a fireball as well while holding a sword as you would while holding a staff that grants a boost to your magic attack stat and MP. Similarly, using gladiator skills isn't going to be as effective while holding a staff as it would be while holding a more physical weapon like a sword or axe.

What if I want to play mainly a spear wielder who can buff on the side? What if I wanted to be an archer that can heal? What if I like the idea of an axe wielder who can cast debuffs and attack spells for extra DPS? In your cookie cutter class system, a lot of these things would end up not being possible... just like all the dozens of other MMOs out there. Why can't you define your own role when given the chance instead of complaining that you can? I LIKE the idea of FF14 being different... of it NOT being exactly like every single other MMO out there. I like the idea of it even being unique to its predecessor, FF 11. Every Final Fantasy has been unique from the one before it. I'd like to keep it that way. I also like being given more options and more ability to customize my character, instead of being forced into a cookie cutter role.

Also... if someone wants to play a pure class... why don't they? You can still just equip your class skills and equipment and play a class as that class. There is nothing stopping you and it's an entirely valid way to play in fact... but why do you want to force that on others? I happen to like things the way they are, and I'm terrified of them taking the part of the game that I love the most away.

[Kimahri]

Here's the future if everything stays the same right now. Rank 50 Gladiator's everywhere. "Let's go fight endgame! What, you're injured!? CURE! What, this monster is immune to physical!? That's ok, we can use elemental magic, too! Who's the tank? Everyone!"

Isn't that the most funtastic thing you've ever wet-dreamed over? Hahaha!