When will we get info on class changes?

[Firon]

I love how people keep saying but CNJ has the elemental in their lore, mostly all spells have some type of element to them even Paralyna etc. Nukes are not the only spells in the game with elements tied to them. That life and death bull shit needs to go, the THM's guild that players join don't give a flying fuck about life, only death so that argument is invalid

[Sephrick]

I love how people keep saying but CNJ has the elemental in their lore, mostly all spells have some type of element to them even Paralyna etc. Nukes are not the only spells in the game with elements tied to them. That life and death bull shit needs to go, the THM's guild that players join don't give a flying fuck about life, only death so that argument is invalid

Quite the aggressive post.

You're correct, all spells do have an elemental association. But nukes are the purest for of said elements one could conjur.

And cures are Astral magic, one of the two elements Thaumaturges deal with.

THM lore doesn't focus solely on death. They're not a group of nihilistic emo kids hanging out at the mall. It seems like it focuses on death because of the consideration about their power and the question of if they could resurrect the dead.

Fact is, it can go either way, which is why Yoshida said we'll know when we see the class changes.

[Velhart]

Quite the aggressive post.

You're correct, all spells do have an elemental association. But nukes are the purest for of said elements one could conjur.

And cures are Astral magic, one of the two elements Thaumaturges deal with.

THM lore doesn't focus solely on death. They're not a group of nihilistic emo kids hanging out at the mall. It seems like it focuses on death because of the consideration about their power and the question of if they could resurrect the dead.

Fact is, it can go either way, which is why Yoshida said we'll know when we see the class changes.

If people look up what THM's actually are, they are considered "miracle workers". Sounds more like WHM to me.

[Physic]

If people look up what THM's actually are, they are considered "miracle workers". Sounds more like WHM to me.

lol once again, in japanese its curse user, dont take the etymology of a translated word to literally.

[Velhart]

lol once again, in japanese its curse user, dont take the etymology of a translated word to literally.

Perhaps, but isn't using this a good excuse to make WHM derive from the THM class?

[Inaaca]

I love how people keep saying but CNJ has the elemental in their lore, mostly all spells have some type of element to them even Paralyna etc. Nukes are not the only spells in the game with elements tied to them. That life and death bull shit needs to go, the THM's guild that players join don't give a flying fuck about life, only death so that argument is invalid

The elemental aspect of CNJ lore goes well beyond the fact that they have elemental nukes. The guild literally defines what a CNJ is as the physical extension of the elements in your person. The CNJs speak to and deal with elementals as a critical part of what they do on a daily basis. Sure, every spell has an element, BUT those elementals don't come in astral and umbral, only the 6 elements of nature (fire, ice, wind, lightning, water, earth), matching CNJ nukes and the elements that BLM historically uses.

As for THM, they worship the god Nald'Thal, who deals in life and death. The THM guild is stationed in the Hall of Thal, and Thal is the half that deals in death. WHM, once introduced, can provide the balance THM needs, by filling the role stationed in the Hall of Nald, and taking up the half that deals in life. This completes the balance that THM is lacking in their lore.

[Physic]

The elemental aspect of CNJ lore goes well beyond the fact that they have elemental nukes. The guild literally defines what a CNJ is as the physical extension of the elements in your person. The CNJs speak to and deal with elementals as a critical part of what they do on a daily basis. Sure, every spell has an element, BUT those elementals don't come in astral and umbral, only the 6 elements of nature (fire, ice, wind, lightning, water, earth), matching CNJ nukes and the elements that BLM historically uses.

As for THM, they worship the god Nald'Thal, who deals in life and death. The THM guild is stationed in the Hall of Thal, and Thal is the half that deals in death. WHM, once introduced, can provide the balance THM needs, by filling the role stationed in the Hall of Nald, and taking up the half that deals in life. This completes the balance that THM is lacking in their lore.

I think what it boils down to, is whether one thinks of a black mage as an elementalist or a dark magic user. conjurer is definately the elementalist, and thaum is the dark /light magic user (but in this game we are mostly exposed to the dark magic user)
the real problem, is in their very creation, they wanted to not have the concept of i just heal and i just do dmg in these mage classes, one is supposed to work via elements the other via life and death. Now they want to make a large shift, and make them fit roles they were never meant for.

basically we cant look to lore, history and such to decide who will do what, because the truth is thaum and con both were made so they could either be a whm or a blm.

but looking at their recent changes, it seems con is leaning heavily toward whm, while its possible they could go 180 and let whm settle on thm, based on the job changes and the stat distributions and what not, it seems slightly more likely that thaum will get blm, the major thing making this a bit questionable, is the ancient magics, fairly powerful elemental nukes dont really gel well with our old concept of whm.

But who knows maybe the new whm wont be a pansypants with no elemental abilities.

[Inaaca]

I think what it boils down to, is whether one thinks of a black mage as an elementalist or a dark magic user. conjurer is definately the elementalist, and thaum is the dark /light magic user (but in this game we are mostly exposed to the dark magic user)
the real problem, is in their very creation, they wanted to not have the concept of i just heal and i just do dmg in these mage classes, one is supposed to work via elements the other via life and death. Now they want to make a large shift, and make them fit roles they were never meant for.

basically we cant look to lore, history and such to decide who will do what, because the truth is thaum and con both were made so they could either be a whm or a blm.

but looking at their recent changes, it seems con is leaning heavily toward whm, while its possible they could go 180 and let whm settle on thm, based on the job changes and the stat distributions and what not, it seems slightly more likely that thaum will get blm, the major thing making this a bit questionable, is the ancient magics, fairly powerful elemental nukes dont really gel well with our old concept of whm.

But who knows maybe the new whm wont be a pansypants with no elemental abilities.

The thing is though, if they're going to go with jobs as being throwbacks to classic Final Fantasy jobs, which they are, then BLM IS an elementalist at its core. Elemental nukes have always been the primary staple of BLMs.

Also, we CAN still look to lore, because they aren't going to rewrite it to fit new additions. They're going to make new additions that add to the lore we already have. Creating more lore to flesh out the already established world has been one of Yoshi's major goals from the start. So the lore we have is perfectly valid to speculate off of.

As far as the recent changes go, they were really only a quick bandaid fix to hold us over until they did the actual redo. I believe they gave CNJ Cure/Curaga/Raise because at the time, CNJ already HAD Cure/Raise, and it was easier at the time to just add to it instead of trying to rearrange abilities before they were ready to.

[grandm]

The thing is though, if they're going to go with jobs as being throwbacks to classic Final Fantasy jobs, which they are, then BLM IS an elementalist at its core. Elemental nukes have always been the primary staple of BLMs.

Also, we CAN still look to lore, because they aren't going to rewrite it to fit new additions. They're going to make new additions that add to the lore we already have. Creating more lore to flesh out the already established world has been one of Yoshi's major goals from the start. So the lore we have is perfectly valid to speculate off of.

As far as the recent changes go, they were really only a quick bandaid fix to hold us over until they did the actual redo. I believe they gave CNJ Cure/Curaga/Raise because at the time, CNJ already HAD Cure/Raise, and it was easier at the time to just add to it instead of trying to rearrange abilities before they were ready to.

i think CON will get blackmage, as you point out blackmage always has elemental nukes. sure they get other magic but always have elemental nukes. but this argument about jobs fitting lore, i have to look at paladin, and think ul'dah gladiators don't seem like knights with godly connections, nor do marauder. but i still put CON as blackmage

[Inaaca]

i think CON will get blackmage, as you point out blackmage always has elemental nukes. sure they get other magic but always have elemental nukes. but this argument about jobs fitting lore, i have to look at paladin, and think ul'dah gladiators don't seem like knights with godly connections, nor do marauder. but i still put CON as blackmage

It all depends on how they continue lore, I suppose. I don't think you can really say that class=job(ARC=BRD?). The two aren't the same thing, nor are they meant to be. Same goes with GLA/PLD, they aren't really the same thing, but they will be related in some way. I'm sure there will be some kind of nobility quest line that guides you down the path to becoming a PLD, and explains how this comes about.