VIT will scale with attack power, STR will scale but not as much

[Instrumentality]

The inference I got when reading the live letter was that for damage calcs VIT > STR > nothing/dex/int/mind

I did not intend to imply that dex did anything, I was looking to see what type of value STR had over an absolute baseline of 0

You'd also have to break your weapon to find that out (0 weapon damage/no stats from weapon), then.

Edit: And this would be much easier to find out by simply not wearing accessories at all since balancing determination on each set of accessories would be difficult.

[Lyth]

One thing to remember is that until now, at a given ilevel, there have been less points of strength on strength accessories than points of vitality on a vitality accessories (the same is true for grade IV strength or vitality materia, but this evens out at grade V). Even if the conversion ends up being 1:1, vitality will still have a bigger contribution to damage output.

The problem is that the combination of both stats still contribute to damage, and left side pieces have both while right side pieces will just have one. That's going to be difficult to balance against dps classes - if you try to keep stat scaling as it is, the combined tank primary stat growth will outpace dps/healers for left side pieces. If you nerf it to balance the left side, tank primary stat growth will be slower than dps/healers for right side pieces. I'm guessing that it's going to lean towards the latter.

[Ultimatecalibur]

One thing to remember is that until now, at a given ilevel, there have been less points of strength on strength accessories than points of vitality on a vitality accessories (the same is true for grade IV strength or vitality materia, but this evens out at grade V). Even if the conversion ends up being 1:1, vitality will still have a bigger contribution to damage output.

The problem is that the combination of both stats still contribute to damage, and left side pieces have both while right side pieces will just have one. That's going to be difficult to balance against dps classes - if you try to keep stat scaling as it is, the combined tank primary stat growth will outpace dps/healers for left side pieces. If you nerf it to balance the left side, tank primary stat growth will be slower than dps/healers for right side pieces. I'm guessing that it's going to lean towards the latter.

I would not worry so much. Sure, left side pieces would scale +4.5 AP per 10 ilevels total (Weapon/Body/Legs: 8 Str + 10 Vit = 9 AP, Head/Hands/Feet: 5 Str + 6 Vit = 5.5 AP, Waist: 4 Str + 4 Vit = 4 AP) more than other roles, but the right side would scale at -10 AP per 10 ilevels total (4 points Vit/Str = 2 points AP * 5 Accessories) if Vit/Str have a 1:.5 ratio with AP. This would mean that at a 50/50 split influence on AP, the gap between Tank/DpS damage output would still increase as ilevels increase.

The new melding system may have already be prepared for this as +75 Str (37.5 AP) from 5 Strength V materia melds on Accessories would be absorbed within 70 ilevels (-38.5 AP).

One thing to consider is how big the AP gap between Str and Vit tanks had grown since level 50 i50 and now. It started at a 25/50 AP difference and is now a 235/260 difference.

[Praesul]

You know this whole "omg now I have to grind for new accessories how unfair!" thing is really dumb, considering that it's a new patch with new content so you're EXPECTED TO GRIND FOR NEW GEAR ANYWAY. Doesn't matter if you have str or vit right now, come patch 3.2 you're (most likely) going to get higher ilvl accessories with vit so.....?????

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

You'd also have to break your weapon to find that out (0 weapon damage/no stats from weapon), then.

Edit: And this would be much easier to find out by simply not wearing accessories at all since balancing determination on each set of accessories would be difficult.

lol... remind me to refine the fine print for you next time. as you can't take off a weapon and breaking would be a fairly time consuming process, I did not include the weapon in the process. I thought it was safe to assume that if you did testing, you wouldn't change weapons for part of the test. It is a constant (as is your left side gear). And truth be told, i am not concerned with your present damage vs. mine. I am looking at testing my number now - after 3.2 with STR, with nothing, and with VIT - and measuring the % difference on me. And thus, comparing the % difference across the board with other players.


Why like this? I know my exact rotation by heart, I don't need to try to factor in potential errors by subbing in an unfamiliar rotation or any other MAJOR variables.

1 - keep all left side gear the same, including off hand.
2 - get a baseline (pre patch) for damage output while in OT stance, using your normal OT rotation in full STR > full VIT > Pentamelds (if you have them) > none (optional)
3 - test post patch results (again using OT stance and normal OT rotation) in full STR > full VIT > Pentamelds > none (optional)
4 - measure the % of difference

This should grant us a view of how the changes will effect our classes with the same gear both pre and post patch

@lylth
A big concern is the VIT as there is simply more of it available on gear vs str and in your base stats. When you start mixing pentamelds, you get significantly more of both stats in total. (60 – 49 – 47)

One way it could have been resolved is if the coding for the damage multiplier first scanned for your highest stat (vit or str) and the plugged in the formula for one or the other.
Base old formula GUESS FOR ILLUSTRATION WD + STR x1 +Det x.133 + Crit x.158 + sks x.125
If Higher VIT : WD + VIT x 1 + det x.133+ crit…….
If Higher STR: WD + STR x .8 + det x.133 + crit……

This gives VIT the same value as STR today (they have not mentioned damage nerfs to tanks in general), and it gives VIT 20% more value than STR post 3.2 (again, illustration purposes)

This is why testing pentamelds in comparison to full vit/str 3.2 builds is needed, as you can have 55 more STR + VIT on a pentameld over full vit accessory STR + VIT.

The DEVS say that we should be fine by having VIT, please forgive my lack of trust within what a DEV says how the game is supposed to operate, over how it actually operates.

[Instrumentality]

lol... remind me to refine the fine print for you next time. as you can't take off a weapon and breaking would be a fairly time consuming process, I did not include the weapon in the process. I thought it was safe to assume that if you did testing, you wouldn't change weapons for part of the test. It is a constant (as is your left side gear).

All of what you said makes sense except for the left side gear being a constant. Until we know exactly how they are going to change the balance of strength and vitality contribution to attack power (What if, for example, strength contributes nothing to attack power at all? Or becomes as weak as determination? And since vitality on tank gear is higher than strength, it would create a notable difference in AP gain on i210 gear) we cannot definitely say that it will be the exact same, hence not wearing it to remove that being a question in mind. What you can say is that right side i210 will be the exact same because the stats on the items themselves have not been said to be changing.

Also what Brannigan said.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

...Also what Brannigan said.

LULZ

I was looking at it from a perspective that the only choice in gearing has to do with right side gear, you don't have a choice in adding str or VIT on left side gear (well yes with the new melding, but I am removing that entirely as a variable. I am free to admit there could be some fault within this logic, but my purpose is to get a general answer to the difference in the main build option for 3.2. I am not attempting to go full dervy on this and test exact stat weights. I want to know that if I am at 1000 now (full str), and in full STR in 3.2 i go to 800, but in full VIT i would sit again at 1000. I will start to care more about the exact number if 3.2 full str is 990 and full vit is 1000

and Lyth yes that is what pentamelds are going to be, but the melds today have 31/29 str/vit for a total of 60. The comparison would be for pentamelds we have right now.

[Instrumentality]

LULZ

I was looking at it from a perspective that the only choice in gearing has to do with right side gear, you don't have a choice in adding str or VIT on left side gear (well yes with the new melding, but I am removing that entirely as a variable. I am free to admit there could be some fault within this logic, but my purpose is to get a general answer to the difference in the main build option for 3.2. I am not attempting to go full dervy on this and test exact stat weights. I want to know that if I am at 1000 now (full str), and in full STR in 3.2 i go to 800, but in full VIT i would sit again at 1000. I will start to care more about the exact number if 3.2 full str is 990 and full vit is 1000

I'm mostly more curious about the exact difference (I want to see just how hard they nerf strength, basically), but I'm only going to have a few dozen data points to compare because god I am too lazy for this most of the time.

[MiniTyra]

I'm mostly more curious about the exact difference (I want to see just how hard they nerf strength, basically), but I'm only going to have a few dozen data points to compare because god I am too lazy for this most of the time.

Just send them to Dervy. He's going to be doing them in the middle of Midas Progression, if he has time in the middle of his 12 hour raids lmao.

You'd also have to break your weapon to find that out (0 weapon damage/no stats from weapon), then.

Edit: And this would be much easier to find out by simply not wearing accessories at all since balancing determination on each set of accessories would be difficult.

Just do Damage / (1 + DET / 7290). That'll scale it for 0 WD, 0 DET. Determination should function, roughly the same, across all Jobs. DET is just a simple multiplier anyway.

Kind of hard to tell the exact scaling because using Linear Regression solvers in Excel is sometimes a bit wonky, and the coefficients you get are based purely off the data points you feed it, but it should do the trick.

LULZ

I was looking at it from a perspective that the only choice in gearing has to do with right side gear, you don't have a choice in adding str or VIT on left side gear (well yes with the new melding, but I am removing that entirely as a variable. I am free to admit there could be some fault within this logic, but my purpose is to get a general answer to the difference in the main build option for 3.2. I am not attempting to go full dervy on this and test exact stat weights. I want to know that if I am at 1000 now (full str), and in full STR in 3.2 i go to 800, but in full VIT i would sit again at 1000. I will start to care more about the exact number if 3.2 full str is 990 and full vit is 1000

You can use "All Class" INT/MIND" gear to vigorously test Vitality scaling on left side... Attribute points can also be used very efficiently to ensure that your control value (STR/VIT) is the same when you're gear swapping left side, as well.

Unfortunately, if the change isn't visual on the character stats page for AP, (if both VIT and STR are scaling AP, it should), then you will have to go full Dervy and collect 100 solid data points to get accurate VIT/STR scale values.

[Brannigan]

If you don't have a broken Garuda's Gaze for testing then get out of my sight my main man.