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  1. #1
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace View Post
    -snip-
    She also seemed to see him as more than a father figure. Or rather perhaps Gaius saw her as more than an adopted daughter? >_>

    'My chambers. One hour.' Or some such. Though it could just be an unfortunate choice of wording?

    As for her being unstable such is pretty common for someone who has experienced a lot of conflict. Heck, the WoL risks becoming like that according to the Dark Knight quests and we've met many Eorzean NPC's who relish in the slaughter of Garleans/Beast Tribes. Then there's the Ishgardians...many of whom relished in the idea of torturing and murdering innocents in the name of a misguided crusade.

    On a side note, there has to be a reason as to why the Garleans are so keen to bring Hydaelyn under their control. If they suffered significantly at the hands of Primals then it might explain their ruthlessness - and I could easily see Eorzeans become like that if they end up trapped in a cycle where they're defeating Primal after Primal after Primal...alongside other threats.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,966
    Character
    Kai Magnus
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    She also seemed to see him as more than a father figure. Or rather perhaps Gaius saw her as more than an adopted daughter? >_>

    'My chambers. One hour.' Or some such. Though it could just be an unfortunate choice of wording?

    As for her being unstable such is pretty common for someone who has experienced a lot of conflict. Heck, the WoL risks becoming like that according to the Dark Knight quests and we've met many Eorzean NPC's who relish in the slaughter of Garleans/Beast Tribes. Then there's the Ishgardians...many of whom relished in the idea of torturing and murdering innocents in the name of a misguided crusade.

    On a side note, there has to be a reason as to why the Garleans are so keen to bring Hydaelyn under their control. If they suffered significantly at the hands of Primals then it might explain their ruthlessness - and I could easily see Eorzeans become like that if they end up trapped in a cycle where they're defeating Primal after Primal after Primal...alongside other threats.
    The chambers thing is just an odd choice of words. He was giving her an order but she was being reprimanded. As far as the Garlands wanting to yolk hydaelyn, they seem to have a problem with Deities in general. Even saying The Twelve were the same thing as Primal. (Which as far as we know they are). Which, I don't really blame them. They lack the ability to manipulate aether into magic and thus resort to machines. They seem to believe The Echo is exclusive to Eorzea which suggest to me they don't have it either. So if a primal IS summoned Then they can only resort to a combo of The Allagan and Company of Hero's tactics. Send in waves to force the tempering, stave off the tempered, and deal as much damage as possible before it tempers more people. And they add machines to their ranks since you can't temper something that's not a sentient being to begin with.

    if they consider all Magic based gods and goddesses to be the same thing, I really don't blame them for being afraid of them and wanting them gone.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Hinoto-no-Ryuji's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
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    389
    Character
    Ryuji Hinoto
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    On a side note, there has to be a reason as to why the Garleans are so keen to bring Hydaelyn under their control. If they suffered significantly at the hands of Primals then it might explain their ruthlessness - and I could easily see Eorzeans become like that if they end up trapped in a cycle where they're defeating Primal after Primal after Primal...alongside other threats.
    From what I've read, they first encountered Primals in Doma, right? And it's Primals that made that war as nasty as it was, so that's probably where the fanaticism against them specifically comes from.

    The story doesn't really deny that that's a reasonable reaction - we think the Primals are bad too, after all. It's really more...everything else about Garlemald. Nations going on a campaign of brutal conquest for its own sake aren't exactly considered the good guys anymore, ever since we realized what a bad thing colonialism was. And, as I think has been mentioned, it's not like they're even letting the conquered people reap the fruits of their advanced society - every single non-Garlean will be a second-class citizen at BEST, and very likely little more than a brutalized conscript (if the methods used on the Ala Mhigans are any indication). For every noble goal of theirs, they have two things about them that make them undesirable as conquerors. There's very little about them that would make them seen as benevolent in the eyes of the conquered.

    EDIT: To actually answer your question: I think it's abundantly clear that they're conquering Hydaelyn because they can and because it makes them feel Important and Strong. It started with their own land, it continued in Doma, and they turned to the last piece when they were able to after that went pear-shaped.

    Your implication seems to be that something triggered their massive campaign against the rest of the world, but there doesn't seem to be any indication of that. It couldn't have been the Primals; the Domans' summoning of them caught them by surprise. Sure, it then informed their approach to Eorzea (Silvertear was because they wanted to avoid another Doma by pre-emptively stopping the locals from summoning Primals in reaction to their assault, remember), but it wasn't the raison-de-guerre. I really think it's just good old-fashioned, self-important Imperialism at play.
    (3)
    Last edited by Hinoto-no-Ryuji; 02-04-2016 at 01:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    SuperFlorinjin's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
    Posts
    51
    Character
    Ador Kable
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji View Post
    From what I've read, they first encountered Primals in Doma, right? And it's Primals that made that war as nasty as it was, so that's probably where the fanaticism against them specifically comes from.
    No I'm pretty sure that these days the Primals are confined to Eorzea. During the lead up to Leviathan Yugiri mentions that there are old tales of Primals in Doma, but nothing like that has been seen for a very long time. That's why she wanted to help against Leviathan, so she could see what kind of threat they really were.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Hinoto-no-Ryuji's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
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    389
    Character
    Ryuji Hinoto
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFlorinjin View Post
    No I'm pretty sure that these days the Primals are confined to Eorzea. During the lead up to Leviathan Yugiri mentions that there are old tales of Primals in Doma, but nothing like that has been seen for a very long time. That's why she wanted to help against Leviathan, so she could see what kind of threat they really were.
    Yugiri may never have seen them, and I may have been wrong in saying they popped up in Doma, but Othard's Primals are indeed part of the backstory. From Moose's "The Rise and Fall of the White Raven":

    The Empire spread all but unchallenged as their airships and machina conquered first the rest of Ilsabard and then the majority of the eastern continent of Othard. It was in the east that the Garleans first encountered the awe-inspiringly destructive capabilities of beings known as primals, otherworldly entities whose physical presence in Hydaelyn is maintained through the consumption of aether, a substance thought to be the source of all life and magic.
    And, as it goes on to say:

    With a critical foothold in Eorzea firmly established, Garlemald was prepared to begin their conquest in earnest. Ancient mythology revered Silvertear Lake, deep in Aldenard’s forest region of Mor Dhona, as a profound focus of spiritual energy, earning it such attributions as the source of all water and the fount of all magic. Measurements of the land’s aetheric flow led Garlean researchers to believe that the area was a massive convergence of aether, if not the center of a global network. If the beast tribes of Eorzea learned to utilize this abundance to summon their eikon gods, the Empire would be drawn into another prolonged and onerous campaign against primals.
    So, yeah, Primals may be an Eorzean thing now, but the Empire has encountered and fought against them before, and even based their entire Eorzean campaign off those past encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Sure, but the quality of life - even for the 'lesser' citizens was arguably much better than what they'd have endured if left to fend for themselves.
    You'll have to give a source on that. We have nobody, inside or outside the game's world, who has spoken to life under Garlean rule being better (just that King Theodric sucked a bunch). Nor is it "some Garlean soldiers mistreating prisoners" - everything about their attitude towards the conquered, from conscription to routine daily execution to prostitution, screams of official military policy (at the very least of the XIVth Legion, which was one of the Empire's most celebrated until Gaius effectively went rogue; I don't imagine their actions are uncondoned). The Garlean attitude towards conquered nations and their people is also clear, from Rhitatyn's entire backstory to that one book in Gubal.
    (2)
    Last edited by Hinoto-no-Ryuji; 02-04-2016 at 04:39 PM.