When are we going to infiltrate the Garlean Empire?!

[ChazNatlo]

Yeah. This is often neglected in 'Garleans are antagonists' discussions. I mean, yes - they are - but they're not incompetent. They've simply been tricked into doing stuff...like most prominent Eorzeans have including the WoL. As for Regula and Varis? We don't know enough about their motives just yet. We've a few hints but nothing we can piece together firmly.

Isn't Regula the one who razed Doma?

I should also point out that the people who put Meteor in play aren't "a select few" We're frequently told that X Garlean disapproved of Meteor. It's made note of when they speak of Varis. That they made note of it makes it notable. On the flip side, Gaius, our goldenboy of justified slaughter actually DID go rogue. ((As I understand it, Nael did to, but that was AFTER setting Dalamud to fall))

Of course, I still believe that if you asked your average rank and file Garlean "Hey, what do you think of dropping a moon on Eorzea?" the prevailing response would be "That's uh... that's a little crazy. Don't we have troops over there?" but they're unlikely to do anything.

As another aside, why do we get to throw Nael under the bus to preserve Garlemald, but Ilberd IS Ala Mhigo? Livia and her hit squad are violent and insane and therefore don't represent what the XIVth stands for, but The Corpse Brigade are the type of people that the ones that want Ala Mhigo back are fighting for?

I really wouldn't mind a more reasonable representation of Garlemald, where things aren't so black and white, but let's not pretend they don't have a LOT of work to do to compensate.

Note, if they are hueing close to VI right now, I wouldn't trust any truce they offer us without assuming dirty deeds.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Isn't Regula the one who razed Doma?

I don't recall him taking credit for it nor the Domans or Garleans saying which Legion was in charge of it.

[Theodric]

Livia was 'insane' because she was both an orphan and lost all those she cared for. We don't know the circumstances surrounding her early life or even how her parents came to be killed - but we do know that she's definitely a pure Garlean given her sister's revelation. Which makes it a possibility that she's an orphan as a direct result of Garlemald's enemies killing her parents - which would at least partially justify her ruthlessness and hatred for those who aren't aligned with Garlemald. That doesn't excuse her attitude/behaviour, naturally, but it's not as if there's a lack of Eorzeans who slaughter Garleans indiscriminately with no regard to the fact that they have hopes, dreams and loved ones.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Livia was 'insane' because she was both an orphan and lost all those she cared for. We don't know the circumstances surrounding her early life or even how her parents came to be killed - but we do know that she's definitely a pure Garlean given her sister's revelation. Which makes it a possibility that she's an orphan as a direct result of Garlemald's enemies killing her parents - which would at least partially justify her ruthlessness and hatred for those who aren't aligned with Garlemald. That doesn't excuse her attitude/behaviour, naturally, but it's not as if there's a lack of Eorzeans who slaughter Garleans indiscriminately with no regard to the fact that they have hopes, dreams and loved ones.

That could explain her near worship of the very ground Gaius van Baelsar stood on considering he took her in, raised her (And possibly Lucia and Cid) for most of her life. Leading her to view him as a father figure and owing everything she is to him. Still though, she seemed mentally unstable far beyond simple PTSD. She seemed borderline psychotic to me.

[Theodric]

-snip-

She also seemed to see him as more than a father figure. Or rather perhaps Gaius saw her as more than an adopted daughter? >_>

'My chambers. One hour.' Or some such. Though it could just be an unfortunate choice of wording?

As for her being unstable such is pretty common for someone who has experienced a lot of conflict. Heck, the WoL risks becoming like that according to the Dark Knight quests and we've met many Eorzean NPC's who relish in the slaughter of Garleans/Beast Tribes. Then there's the Ishgardians...many of whom relished in the idea of torturing and murdering innocents in the name of a misguided crusade.

On a side note, there has to be a reason as to why the Garleans are so keen to bring Hydaelyn under their control. If they suffered significantly at the hands of Primals then it might explain their ruthlessness - and I could easily see Eorzeans become like that if they end up trapped in a cycle where they're defeating Primal after Primal after Primal...alongside other threats.

[Kaiser-Ace]

She also seemed to see him as more than a father figure. Or rather perhaps Gaius saw her as more than an adopted daughter? >_>

'My chambers. One hour.' Or some such. Though it could just be an unfortunate choice of wording?

As for her being unstable such is pretty common for someone who has experienced a lot of conflict. Heck, the WoL risks becoming like that according to the Dark Knight quests and we've met many Eorzean NPC's who relish in the slaughter of Garleans/Beast Tribes. Then there's the Ishgardians...many of whom relished in the idea of torturing and murdering innocents in the name of a misguided crusade.

On a side note, there has to be a reason as to why the Garleans are so keen to bring Hydaelyn under their control. If they suffered significantly at the hands of Primals then it might explain their ruthlessness - and I could easily see Eorzeans become like that if they end up trapped in a cycle where they're defeating Primal after Primal after Primal...alongside other threats.

The chambers thing is just an odd choice of words. He was giving her an order but she was being reprimanded. As far as the Garlands wanting to yolk hydaelyn, they seem to have a problem with Deities in general. Even saying The Twelve were the same thing as Primal. (Which as far as we know they are). Which, I don't really blame them. They lack the ability to manipulate aether into magic and thus resort to machines. They seem to believe The Echo is exclusive to Eorzea which suggest to me they don't have it either. So if a primal IS summoned Then they can only resort to a combo of The Allagan and Company of Hero's tactics. Send in waves to force the tempering, stave off the tempered, and deal as much damage as possible before it tempers more people. And they add machines to their ranks since you can't temper something that's not a sentient being to begin with.

if they consider all Magic based gods and goddesses to be the same thing, I really don't blame them for being afraid of them and wanting them gone.

[Theodric]

Yeah. I don't really blame them for that either. Final Fantasy games also have a long tradition of eventually revealing a character's religious beliefs to be false or misguided. I suspect a lot of 'deities' are much like Gridania's Elementals - in that they're not necessarily pure and righteous. That's assuming they exist at all...and if they do there's no real guarantee that they've actually got the mortal races best interests in mind. At this point I fully expect both Hydaelyn and Zodiark to be manipulating the mortal races as pawns in their conflict with little regard to who perishes in the process. Hopefully we'll get some major lore dumps regarding that sort of thing in the next patch.

[Kaiser-Ace]

YI suspect a lot of 'deities' are much like Gridania's Elementals - in that they're not necessarily pure and righteous. That's assuming they exist at all...

Oh elementals exist. Like Acsians and Primals their bodies are made of pure aether. (Though they only manifest when they want) and elementals are even admitted by Gridanians to be fickle and dangerous. But, until recently at least, they had so much sway over The Twelve's Wood that nothing could (Or rather was allowed to) survive there with out their consent. Thus why the Gelmorans had to kiss serious Elemental back side in order to come above ground with out being killed. The Ixali are not technically allowed to be in The Twelves Wood, but at this point the elementals are so weak there's not much they can do about it. Luckily for the elementals The Ixali and Gridanians don't get along very well.

[VargasVermillion]

I always took the livia being sent to gaius's chambers just as a private scolding from Gaius because of her actions in the waking sands and her failures at castrum centri. Despite how she captured minfillia and all that I don't think gaius actually ordered her to go and kill nearly everyone and to capture the leader, she likely did it on her own to 'prove' something to gaius and while her plan succeeded gaius may not have liked the method or the action out of order. A plan from gaius would be a little more subtle imo.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

On a side note, there has to be a reason as to why the Garleans are so keen to bring Hydaelyn under their control. If they suffered significantly at the hands of Primals then it might explain their ruthlessness - and I could easily see Eorzeans become like that if they end up trapped in a cycle where they're defeating Primal after Primal after Primal...alongside other threats.

From what I've read, they first encountered Primals in Doma, right? And it's Primals that made that war as nasty as it was, so that's probably where the fanaticism against them specifically comes from.

The story doesn't really deny that that's a reasonable reaction - we think the Primals are bad too, after all. It's really more...everything else about Garlemald. Nations going on a campaign of brutal conquest for its own sake aren't exactly considered the good guys anymore, ever since we realized what a bad thing colonialism was. And, as I think has been mentioned, it's not like they're even letting the conquered people reap the fruits of their advanced society - every single non-Garlean will be a second-class citizen at BEST, and very likely little more than a brutalized conscript (if the methods used on the Ala Mhigans are any indication). For every noble goal of theirs, they have two things about them that make them undesirable as conquerors. There's very little about them that would make them seen as benevolent in the eyes of the conquered.

EDIT: To actually answer your question: I think it's abundantly clear that they're conquering Hydaelyn because they can and because it makes them feel Important and Strong. It started with their own land, it continued in Doma, and they turned to the last piece when they were able to after that went pear-shaped.

Your implication seems to be that something triggered their massive campaign against the rest of the world, but there doesn't seem to be any indication of that. It couldn't have been the Primals; the Domans' summoning of them caught them by surprise. Sure, it then informed their approach to Eorzea (Silvertear was because they wanted to avoid another Doma by pre-emptively stopping the locals from summoning Primals in reaction to their assault, remember), but it wasn't the raison-de-guerre. I really think it's just good old-fashioned, self-important Imperialism at play.