Afterthoughts:Level Capped Dungeons

[Aileesan]

I would love the level cap dungeons, if I didn't get the same ones for roulette... pretty much every day. I'm looking at YOU Arboretum.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

The solution would be to reverse the paradigm. Make tome gear the catch up gear, and make the dungeon drops the good gear. IE - the current two level 60 dungeons dropping i170 gear while the Law buys i160. The two "expert" dungeons drop i200 gear while the Esoterics buy the i185 gear.

I don't see SE going in that direction though. Mainly because the cap on the higher tome limits the rate at which people can gear up, something that repeated dungeon runs would not (unless they go for a "one loot per week" a la the 24 man dungeon runs, which would NOT be well received).

[Callback]

All boss would maybe be ok. TSW does like 8 bosses as a dungeon and it's a lot less boring than XIV's.

Trash is ok in Diablo because the combat is satisfying. XIV's combat is not. I would scrap the game entirely like they did with 1.0 and make a new 3.0 with a better style, closer to FFE.

[Mimilu]

I would love the level cap dungeons, if I didn't get the same ones for roulette... pretty much every day. I'm looking at YOU Arboretum.

I use to love Arboretum but grinding it and Sirius every day makes me almost empathize with the OP's friend.
With how the devs designed the system, you have to grind the same content over and over again, it get's old really quick, especially with only two end-game dungeons. It turns those dungeons into chores that you just want to get over with quickly.

[Kosmos992k]

Thats what I meant I think my wording was off with that sentence. Pre nerf they were great dungeons, people may not agree but I loved them. Now dungeons are bland and uninteresting. The only thing trash pulls offer now are gates that block you from doing full speed runs.

Agreed. Sadly my first experience of Pharos Sirius (pre nerf)included a DPS who swore he knew the mechanics and had done it before. We wiped to the first Boss so many times, my wife (our healer) almost quit from frustration. Instead of playing themechanics, or listening to the tank(me), our know it all dps proceeded to dps the hell out of the boss, and bitched at our healer for not healing. She was too busy running from the adds, after numerous wipes we somehow got through. This was long before any real overgearing was involved, there was no way to burn the boss,you had to play the adds. Similar fail on the next boss - failed mechanics and can't burn the boss, and the fool ran ahead to drag trash packs to us on the stairs..not the safe landings. I never ran another dungeon with that person again... LOL

The thing was, depsite that, it was still fun, because it was not brain dead easy.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I use to love Arboretum but grinding it and Sirius every day makes me almost empathize with the OP's friend.
With how the devs designed the system, you have to grind the same content over and over again, it get's old really quick, especially with only two end-game dungeons. It turns those dungeons into chores that you just want to get over with quickly.

That is partially tied to problems with Alex Gordias (both Normal and Savage), Frontlines(Seize) and Diadem. They were intended to be pretty good (alternate/augmented) sources of Eso tomes, but design errors caused players to get sick of them really quick.

AlexNM's original token reward system caused players to burn out incredibly fast. Even after the reward system was changed players were sick of it and didn't want to go back. An average of 5 runs (which should have given a player a token) of each floor would have given 200 Eso.

AlexSavage's similarity to AlexNM (which many players were already sick of) along with the problematic difficulty caused serious problems. Hardcore players would have been getting about 20% to 25% of their Eso each week from Savage once they started clearing.

Frontlines(Seize) suffers heavily from extremely long queues caused by GC imbalances. It is a really good and interesting source of Eso when you are in one of the low pop GCs getting 10 min queue times, but sucks when you are in the high pop GC with a 2 hour queue time.

Diadem suffers greatly from disparate player goals, anti-poopsocking measures, and imbalanced rewards. 20 ESO for a 90 min duty is not very rewarding compared to 75 for a 15/20 minute one. Once many people got their mounts they just stopped doing Daidem.

There is a lot of variety, the problem is that doing daily expert roulette 5 times each week is just so much easier, faster and less draining than other sources.

[Awful]

I remember the old days of playing 60 WoW doing Stratholme and Scholomance where it'd take you hours to clear that place there was no speed running it was get in, clear the ziggurats, kill the bosses, kill the final boss with a time limit. For Scholomance you had to make flasks in there and it was pretty tough and couldn't speed run it. Again both places took 2 hours to clear sometimes 3 if you pulled too many and wiped a lot it took a lot of teamwork and was really enjoyable. I know FF XIV and WoW are different but the mentality now is "I need to meet my cap this week, these dungeons are boring" the caps not going anywhere, I myself like to speed run but with my FC buddies because of our synergy I can literally pop LD with a whole first room pull and my FC buddy benes me while walking dead has 3 seconds left you won't get that in a PUG.

As for what dungeons could be is more puzzles, keep the trash because I actually like trash it's harder than the bosses lol, I do like the dungeons in this game a lot aside from 2 (Alwaysreap and Snowcloak) other than that I love Aurum Vale, Sohm Al, The Aery, etc I could go on. There's only so much you can do with dungeons it has to have a Beginning and an End having stuff inbetween depending on the choices we made would be really awesome but not everyone agrees which I don't expect anyone to jump on new things as people are reluctant.

Tldr; people will always choose the most efficient way of farming tomes, items, gear, over fun because it's the most optimal way of doing it in the least amount of time.

[bass9020]

Agreed. Sadly my first experience of Pharos Sirius (pre nerf)included a DPS who swore he knew the mechanics and had done it before. We wiped to the first Boss so many times, my wife (our healer) almost quit from frustration. Instead of playing themechanics, or listening to the tank(me), our know it all dps proceeded to dps the hell out of the boss, and bitched at our healer for not healing. She was too busy running from the adds, after numerous wipes we somehow got through. This was long before any real overgearing was involved, there was no way to burn the boss,you had to play the adds. Similar fail on the next boss - failed mechanics and can't burn the boss, and the fool ran ahead to drag trash packs to us on the stairs..not the safe landings. I never ran another dungeon with that person again... LOL

The thing was, depsite that, it was still fun, because it was not brain dead easy.

Yep exactly people tend to skip or try to skip whatever they can but sometimes it just doesnt work and now we no longer have things like that in dungeon. :/ I feel like if they added these places to the open world as an optional thing it would make it a little more interesting. Leave the easy speed run no brain tactics to the Duty Finder and add puzzles and unique gating to the open world versions.

[Ilitsa]

Beautiful words

Pretty much all the posts I've seen you do lately, I've agreed with completely, just thought I'd point that out

[bardaboo]

I don't see the point in you wanting dungeons lvl capped. If dungeons are your endgame why even bother gearing up if you are just going to cap yourself down. Plus i think it's fun as your gear gets better and better the dungeon goes faster and faster. Either way there's still going to be people that aren't as effective on their class making the dungeon slower, at least with better gear it's not as painful